Mission Paintball on TV

[crabs069]

well then someone struck a nerve

Well the we have heard the veiws of the famous robbo and we value his "opinions" but i think p'd off made some good points

joe public want to see people having a good time and stuff ya dig please tell me if im wrong won't you

 

[crabs069]

well then someone struck a nerve

Well the we have heard the veiws of the famous robbo and we value his "opinions" but i think p'd off made some good points

joe public want to see people having a good time and stuff ya dig please tell me if im wrong won't you

ok can i ask one more question ???

how did you all start paintballing. my bet is that it was on a rec ball day were you yourself were "joe public" i know thats how i started. i was very well looked after when i first played. i know im only young but i know whaty i like and what i think someone please tell me if im wrong.



P.S oh i forgot u were all probally all born paint eaters!!!

 

[Giles]

Oh I believe

Well everone has some points
Nick you are right in the groove on this one, my views are not everyone elses, but it will take a bit of persuasion to change my mind on things and I do from time to time but someone must give actual fact and talk
To give a summary of what my biggest fear for the sport is let me tell you all
Paintball as it is now called not Wargames, the change was made for a reason in the day and age we live in Joe public as a collective do not like a game that glorifies the taking off life or playing a game that glorifies war
The sooner we can get a grip on paintball if we ever can from the level we are at today to a more acceptable public sport the better for us all
As I reach my last years in the sport I would like to think my son could carry on playing for many years
I do not agree that fat cat sites that just offer the woodland game in camo should survive, I would like to see them put further effort in to providing many aspects
I love woodland, it was my first game and many after and does have a place in paintball, but the scenario game we also play has a part
With possible world war 3 looming we must take the sport away from WAR and more towards a sport

Let me pose a question for anyone that wishes to answer it
Pete if you could put the question more eliquently please do

Q, If the home office/goverment came to us and said, your sport glorifies war and as a result of that in the current climate we have decided to ban your activities what would you answer with as you canot say its a sport that people play recreationally in the woods killing people (like war) however with the bond of the tournament circuit taking the sport forward away from camo and anything resembling real life we can

wow

 

[rancid]

Giles, the only way the govt could ban paintball in uk is to 'outlaw' markers - easily done. It wouldn't matter if paintball was an olympic sport, it wouldn't matter if Robbo was ten time gold medal winner, it wouldn't matter if we all played in the woods and dressed as stromtroopers, the only way they can knock it on the head is to take away the 'gun'.

take a step back and look at what happened to firearms in the uk. Christ some of our shooters where world beaters. Shooting stil is an olympic sport popular in practically every country in the world - difference is our guys have to travel to France to practice. Giles, you've been around long enough to remember what happened to Scottish paintball six or seven years ago.

Rec-ball, casuals, punters is where it is at, and tourny ball should get on their knees and thank them everyday of the week. God bless Tyger!

 

[JohnJ]

Earlier on in the year I contacted my MP regarding the home office review of air weapons. My main reason for doing this was that there had been a speight of injuries due to kids being shot with air rifles and the county newspaper was running a campaign to get them banned.
My MP was very supportive and forwarded my comments to the review body who replied saying that Paintball was being treated as a special case in the review as no member of the public had raised concerns or objections about the sport.
They see no problems with us so why do we spend so much time with the paranoia that big brother is going to close us down any minute.
Paintball is a widely accepted sport and the fact that it currently recieves so much TV coverage whether for tournaments, game shows or as part of long running TV soaps only emphasises this.
Those who have been with paintball since its infancy can still recognise our roots and whether you play woodland or tourney,
pump or semi, novice or pro you only do it for one reason - YOU ENJOY IT.
John

 

[rancid]

Sorry Nick, I don't know how to do the quote thing, so please excuse me...

you say: "You make little sense my man. First of all. - If the British Government (or any other for that matter), where to change policy. - It would be a political descision... that's how politics work. A political descision is in our day and age very much ruled by public opinion."

Democracy mate, govt can't ban paintball cos it glorifies war, that would mean (some) books, films, magazines could be banned as well. Impossible to do, what they could do is bring markers under the firearms act and outlaw them.


You say: "So - to safeguard paintball against political descisions, is best achieved by changing public opinion of the "sport". Now the thing is, that to provoke a government into changing policy, something awful would have to happen - like som arsehole blinding an innocent bystander, robbing a bank with a paintball marker, - or something similar..... which is unfortunately likely to happen at some point. And here comes the big, heavy point: If it was reported that a weekend warrior blinded someone, the reaction would be one of public outcry. - If it was reported that someone used a piece of paintball sport equipment to blind someone, the reaction would be a short notice on the bottom of page 47."

Exactly my point, it wouldn't matter if we were an olympic sport - just like shooting. Whether paintball is regarded as a sport or not wouldn't make an ounce of difference if the public thought paintball markers were a threat to public safety.

"It's like if someone took a cricket bat, and clobbered a bunch of people with it, cricket would be in no danger of being put under stricter rules... because public opinion of cricket is that it is a REAL sport... and therefore it's equipment not viewed as weaponery... no matter how well it can be used that way !"

Same argument was used to oppose firearms ban. It's wishful thinking: a paintball marker is designed to fire a projectile, it's aimed at people (players) - this is its sole use, it could be seen as dangerous and it looks a bit like a gun. The cricket bat, knitting needle, paper scissors arguments are vapid and were shown to be in the face of a govt who wanted to legislate.


You say: "That explained, you try to make another point. It is a bit dim - but you seem to think that us tournament players owe everything to the rec. players (and Tyger in particular - who I by the way like and respect) ? You forget something..... or maybe you just don't know it. Most of us playing at top level today, started out with recball (tournament ball didn't exist in Europe when I started playing). - We have been a part of that scene and developed from it. - Many of us have also been instrumental in developing paintball in our local countries, been part of federations and similar organisations, talked to government officials on behalf of the sport, promoted paintball in the media, etc., etc. Now - I THINK your point is that without the broad customerbase of recball - paintball would not exist..... Well listen my friend... when I started playing, the whole planet had fewer players, than there are tournament players today... That's why a Phantom with a 12 gramme quickchange shoulderrest, and a pair of JT Snapper goggles cost the same in the old days, as a Vision Impulse with a 4500 Maxflowsystem and a pair of JT Proteus cost today... supply and demand !"

Nick, c'mon. There are less tournament players in the world than there are casuals & corporates playing in the UK today. As for supply and demand? If you didn't have a Phantom what would you have? - a bushmaster, or if you didn't mind what people thought, a Razorback. There were only three guns (essentially) - the fact that there's more recballers now means more money, more entrants into the gun market and lower prices.

As for doing things for the sport, I would like to count myself in the top ten (bit over zealous perhaps). Unfortunately, you are demonstrating a tournament players attitude - you don't know who I am, you don't recognise me as a tourny player, I support recball therefore I'm new to the game, a dweeb, or a combination (actually you might be right). You're obviously a nice guy, but don't presume so much.

You say "So - rather than the recplayers of today being thanked by the "old guard" - maybe some of the newer players should start throwing some praise around for the people who have worked their arses of in paintball for years and years... with no or very little personal gain (like Giles)."

My comments to Giles were not vindictive, I was just passing my opinion. I agree with you. I thank Robbo every day.

You say: "I have no time for some recreational player who has played at his local field for a few months, and then formed the opinion that tournament players are selfcentered arseholes and tournament paintball is "wrong", because he is told so by "older" recplayers at the site.... nor do I have time for those same "old" recplayers, who from a totally selfish standpoint argue against tournament paintball, just because they happen to like playing in the woods better than on a Sup'Air field.... with no regard for the bigger scheme of things. If those "old" players put forward valid political arguments... rather than incoherent slander, I would listen with great interest... but just saying "there are more of us than of you and I like playing in the woods better"... is hardly the basis for a sensible political debate about the future of our sport."

I'm not sure if this is aimed at me or we're digging up some deeper neurosis.... but I agree with you. I have no time either. My point about recball, casuals, corporate etc is, and this is undeniably true, they pay for you to play tourny. If it was not for this market there would not be enough money in paintball to develop new markers, new paints, magazines and tournaments. This is not to say tourny paintball hasn't a place as the pioneer - I played tourny paintball for ten years, but I am not so narrow minded to know who I have to thank for that.

You say: "I hope you are now less confused ?"

Yes I am, thanks, I feel much better now.

 

[Al Woods]

This is good dudes.

Ok, I feel a bit out of my depth getting involved in this because there are a lot of 'ballers givin up comments on this subject that have been playing for a good ten years or so, plus. Myself and the guys I play with (K2) only picked up markers for the first time less than two years ago and we've seen sh!t loads of changes to the game. I don't really like rec ball but I marshall it when I can because it's a big part of the games' development. Tournament play for me is the ultimate, the adraneline, the rush, the people you meet, it's an awesome experience but Joe Schmoe doesn't know how any of this works untill Big Dave the rec marshall tells 'em about it. We played our first game two years ago for my birthday, I'd always wanted to do paintball because I thought it'd be cool to run around, like Rambo, and shoot the fnck out of my buds, in camo gear. Kelly's were our marshalls for the day and saw a bit of enthusiasm in us and warmed us into the idea of playing a tournament, how the fnck do you have a tournament with Rambos in the woods???? We soon found out and have never looked back.

Anyway, enough of that, Mission Paintball probably isn't the first step towards getting paintball on UK TV but I personally thought it did pretty well in keeping the rec and tournament elements interesting. Our boys didn't win against the Tigers but of the episodes I've seen it was the best, two muggings from the Latham machine-awesome!! It's still paintball on TV boys and it looks pretty good. X-Fire aswell. Like I said, not into rec ball but I thought this was fnckin amazing. Ok it wasn't really paintball as we want to see it and the whole invasion scenario is there but it gives site owners something to work towards to make the rec game better and maybe introduce some decent big-game action in this country. If this kind of scenario was available maybe more tourney players would get involved in both playing and getting new players into the tournament scene.

This aside I do agree with Giles that tournament coverage isn't done. It IS important, but so is the above. We have to separate the two in a way as activities but still work together in bettering paintball as a whole. I really wanna see tournamet paintball on Extreme sports channels, I still watch EX and ESPN in the hope that I might catch a lil' piece of 'ball on TV but it doesn't happen and I DO get pissed because I see tournament play as one of these sports. The idea behind adrenaline sports is due to the intense involvement in the game. FACT!! So, why don't we see more of 'ball??

MARKETING!!!!

The reason we see the likes of Mission Paintball and X-Fire is becaus ethose involved believe in the project. Fair enough there's money involved but who cares?? We never went to Toulouse this year but we will be next year and I heard that as soon as you stepped from your plane there were paintball posters up there, awesome imagery too!!, we don't get this anywhere in this country. How many times do you go to a UK tourney and get lost?? FnCKIN LOADS!!! thats how many. Organisers need to stopped competing and put their heads together to promote the game, not their sites. The players are here to make the game amazing to watch, not to promote it.

Niall Squires. The legend. Campaign Cup. THAT was an effort. Ok it didn't quite live to the everything we thought it might but it was the best fnckin' tourney I've been to, EVER!! Some may say that guys like this get involved with putting rec ball on TV to earn money. DAMN RIGHT!! How else can you hire an athletic stadium IN ADVANCE without any revenue???? Exactly, you can't. These guys have to earn cash to support the sport, oooh I feel a copyright comin' on there. Without those involved with grass roots ball and keepin in with the big tourney boys we'd be F....buggered.

Paintball WILL be recognised as a sport and I love it.

Mission Paintball: SH!T HOT!!
X-Fire: FnCKIN' AWESOME!!

Keep it up dudes.

(have I beaten Nick Luel in the longest post contest??) U DA MAAAAN NICK!!

 

[rancid]

Stop telling me I'm wrong!

Original comment was that paintball could be banned cos it glorifies war. My point was you cannot ban anything in the Uk because it glorifies war - it's not democtratic process, you'd have to ban warbooks, toy soldier figures, films. This is not my opinion Nick, it's fact.

I understand what people are saying, if the public didn't think of it as Rambo they would be less inclined to slam it in the event of a disaster. I agree, and I was involved in trying to persuade shooting to change things in the early 90s - no camouflage at shoots, no targets resembling humans etc etc. I was also involved in taking paintball out of the woods and into the arenas for the very reasons you so eloquently put. So, it's not that I don't understand. Here's the problem - paintball uses a 'gun' it is closer to shooting than you want to believe. Nick, I'm not worried about some idiot doing damage with a paintball gun, there's kids out there with airguns. The govt outlaws them and they could pull paintball in. This is not my opinion, it is fact. It is being discussed now, and some of us are trying to prevent it. ie doing things rather than talking about them.

You say: ' Do we really want the general public to think paintball is about playing Rambo ?'For reasons described earlier in this thread (which need no repeating), I still think we do NOT (you apparently have another view ?). "

No, where on earth have I written this? Paintball should market itself better, tournaments should be pushed, but if you think this will one day stop a govt legislating you're in cloud cuckoo land. Paintball needs to market itself to attract more players, more money and to advance. It's a business model.

Nick WDP started off putting 1000s of recballers & casuals thru their sites, they then produced forest and sold it to recballers all over the world. C'mon mate, where did you think they got the money to develop the Angel? Nick, help me out. How many tourny players do you think there are in the world? C'mon - have a stab in the dark. How many units do Smart Parts shift a month. Do all these tourny players have smart parts kit? Work it out.

You say: "That having been said, you are ofcourse right that we would have much fewer tournament players today, if we had fewer rec. fields. - Most players start there."

Nick, you wouldn't have any paint to fire. It's not about where you start.

You say: "But don't be so narrowminded as to actively oppose tournament paintball.... which is what will make our final breakthrough to the public, through extensive media coverage."

Nick,I and my trusted colleagues are, just about, providing the only media coverage of tournament paintball that there is! I love tournament paintball. Please read what I say.

This is getting boring for people. And could someone please help me out with the quote thing - ie how do you do it?

Cheers Nick.

 

[Giles]

just a short one, I dont like the long threads

Rancid- take some time and read the persons post you are responding to, dont keep going back to my original comment and use that as an argument
there are 2 things in general that worry me about someone stopping me playing

1, Government through legislation (banning guns-yes along with other means)
2, Enviromentalist support that states we are not allowed to play in woodland as an example

If you truly believe that the only way a government could ban us is by banning our markers you are the village

 

[rancid]

. Ok let's rack this off cos we're both having trouble understanding each other.I 'll try and be quick

Giles thing about the gun is this..

a) Environmental issue - they could stop us playing in the woods. I'm not well up on this, but... effectively it stops paintball but it doesn't ban it.
b) Public don't like image summat happens and they ban paintball. It's a point of semantics but how do you ban paintball? Do they say it is illegal for people to gather in the woods? It is illegal to wear camo? It is illeagal to organise yourself into teams and shoot paint at each other. OK. But that doesn't stop me owning a paintball marker and therefore the problem is still there. Take away my marker and I cannot play, easy rule and it effects no other group's rights.

I know I go on about shooting, but it is similar. They didn't ban shooting, they banned the gun. You tell me how you can ban paintball other than banning the gun?

Nick, to be frank I can't be arsed to go through all your points, as you can't mine so please don't get upset. I think these issues are important, but perhaps it's best to leave them until a face to face.

I am not well up on the german situation - please explain on what grounds they are banning it, and how effectively they are going about it? Are they banning the gun? Or are they banning paintball? See my point to Giles. Ithink this is the crux of our misunderstanding each other.

I am a bit precious, but I kinda get touchy people giving me lessons in marketing paintball. Email me and I'll explain more fully.

My comments on recball boil down to this:if it wasn't for the number of people playing non tournament paintball, there would be no paintball. A paint manufacturer could not survive on the paint that tourny players use. They would go out of business. There would be no tourny paintball without the rec market. Hence my original comment, "get down on your knees and thank them".

About wdp et al. You can't bring that up as an argument and then when you lose it, say it's not relevant. You're just tying my hands behind my back. The wdp point demonstrates my whole argument, pick another company and I'll show you the same.

Q: Do you think it would benefit paintball, if local sites were able to offer tournament style paintball to customers ?
A: Yes, but not exclusively.

Q: Do you believe site owners could maintain, or even expand, their present turnover by doing so ?
A: Expand? No. Not at the moment. Why do you?

Q:- Do you think altering the image of paintball (from wargames to sport) to the general public would be benificial ?
A: Yes. But it's not the panacea you believe it to be.

Qo you believe it makes sense to market tournament paintball to the public, when they cannot try it at their local sites ?
A: Yes, I think the public get interested in paintball, not tournies. Any kind of responible coverage is good.

Q: Do you think it would benefit all concerned financially (site owners, tournament players, punters, manufacturers, etc.) if if paintball was essentially the same "product" from top to bottom ?
A: NO. Tournament paintball (these days) is elitist. How many paintballers the world over would give up (or play less) if you made them play tourney style rec days? More than you would attract.

How's that?
Hey I like this.