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Millennium/NPPL clash

Magued

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Jul 10, 2001
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Pete

I think alot of European team and owners liked the way it worked out last year. All of a sudden alot of them found themself on top of the paintball world in Europe. Some of them have realized that if they still want to be there they dont want some of the team in the legue. Make it harder for the NPPL teams will help them gain a position or 2 in the scoreboard.

Let them Pete, and we will see after Marseille...

Magued
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Perhaps for the sake of some clarity the sequence of events could be re-stated? (The way I vaguely remember it there was something about scheduling on Easter or too close together and somebody changed then somebody else changed ... ?)

In any event it appears that the MS has attempted, even if the method is disputed, to resolve the conflicting events problem.

Of course, if one were inclined I don't suppose it would be too hard to conjure up a conspiracy suggesting a more covert continuation of the league wars after all the presumed nicey-nice went up in smoke at the turn of the year.
 

Magued

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Baco.

I would say that its the NPPL fault that it is confronting dates. No secrets there. And I think they handled it very badly!

But alot of people now try to take advantage of the situation to give their teams a edge. It was pretty clear during the CL meeting when some teams even tried to make the legue lock the rooster after the first event. Making it impossible for the NPPL team to participate.
And also Petes idea regarding the average score was turned down. Conspiracy? No, just short minded people thinking they could get a good result by not having any opponents.

Magued
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Originally posted by Magued
Baco.

1--I would say that its the NPPL fault that it is confronting dates. No secrets there. And I think they handled it very badly!

2--But alot of people now try to take advantage of the situation to give their teams a edge. It was pretty clear during the CL meeting when some teams even tried to make the legue lock the rooster after the first event. Making it impossible for the NPPL team to participate.
And also Petes idea regarding the average score was turned down. Conspiracy? No, just short minded people thinking they could get a good result by not having any opponents.

Magued
1--that is how it seemed to me but as I wasn't sure of the details I didn't want to put it that way but I'm willing to agree with you. :)

2--it may not be nice but it's understandable.

Purely from an outside point of view looking in it appears the MS has offered a reasonable compromise that will allow Joy and Nexus at least to remain within the CL even though it requires both teams to prioritize their interests. Given the new and changing face of Pro paintball leagues that doesn't seem unfair although I certainly sympathize with teams caught up in the transition.
 

Robbo

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Originally posted by Baca Loco
1--that is how it seemed to me but as I wasn't sure of the details I didn't want to put it that way but I'm willing to agree with you. :)

2--it may not be nice but it's understandable.

Purely from an outside point of view looking in it appears the MS has offered a reasonable compromise that will allow Joy and Nexus at least to remain within the CL even though it requires both teams to prioritize their interests. Given the new and changing face of Pro Paintball leagues that doesn't seem unfair although I certainly sympathize with teams caught up in the transition.

Baca, it's unfair, end of !
How the hell is it a compromise when at the very least both myself and Magued will end up getting a lower position by virtue of the fact we can't field our proper side.


There are some things about this that you are at the moment unaware of, which cast a whole new shadow across these proceedings and the reasons things were done this way.
But that aside, I have no idea how on earth you could come to the conclusion they are being fair.
We have supported this league from the very beginning and the only people taking your stance in this Baca are the people who stand to gain from our exclusion.
This league needs to hold on to their top Euro teams and not to make things very difficult for them because things have a tendency to come back and bite people in the ass as will most definitely happen in this case.


Magued, we both know who these people are, they are cowards if they can only get higher positions if they make it harder for us.

Joy and Nexus are in a unique position to be able to bring back some of the American experience to our tournament scene in Europe, it just seems ironic that we both worked damned hard to get to the top of the pile and now the very people who should be benefiting from us being in their league are turning their backs on us for reasons that are at present unannounced...but trust me on this one Mag, I will not keep my mouth shut if they try to stiff us both.

They have left themselves unbelievably open, I have already received an email with one lie in it today from someone on the board in trying to rewrite history for his own ends. I am getting sick and tired of all this crap, the lies, the duplicity and the self interest.
All I wanna do is be left alone and to have my team play paintball...that is it !!!
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Originally posted by Robbo
1--Baca, it's unfair, end of !
How the hell is it a compromise when at the very least both myself and Magued will end up getting a lower position by virtue of the fact we can't field our proper side.

2--There are some things about this that you are at the moment unaware of, which cast a whole new shadow across these proceedings and the reasons things were done this way.
But that aside, I have no idea how on earth you could come to the conclusion they are being fair.

3--We have supported this league from the very beginning and the only people taking your stance in this Baca are the people who stand to gain from our exclusion.

This league needs to hold on to their top Euro teams and not to make things very difficult for them because things have a tendency to come back and bite people in the ass as will most definitely happen in this case.
Pete, not my intention to either aggravate you or take anybody's side. As I said, I only know part of the history here and my interest, such as it is, is focused on the interactions of the leagues which will likely impact all of us in various ways in the near and longer term.

1--but perhaps unfair to the least number of teams possible given a generally impossible situation. I don't know.

2--don't doubt that for a moment. As to the second part when I see, from my vantage point, who has done what that I'm aware of it looks like every effort to accomodate the distressed teams has come from one side of the problem, the MS. And according to Mags the NPPL is the chief problem causer in this yet all your ire is addressed at the league making some effort to offer a solution. As I said before, purely an outsider's point of view with limited info.

3--I'm not taking a stance. I'm simply observing that you and Mags are in this predicament because of the actions of TWO leagues and only one of those leagues is acting to try and offer a solution. That, at least, is how it appears. That may not be how it is, I don't know.
The particular solution may not be to your liking and may in fact benefit others as well but there is no doubt that without something on offer you'd be forced to choose one league or the other. In the current situation you are being forced to choose which league matters more to you.
As to the what and why others are acting or choosing as they are I've no clue but regarding your preferred solution of adding an average score based on 4 events I can honestly see why some other teams might object to that because however you slice you are getting seasonal results from 20% less competition than everyone else.
Again, from the outside looking in, it appears that the MS does want both Nexus and Joy in the CL--though maybe not XSV--but are answerable to, what, a dozen or more other teams as well.

Could it be that machinations behind the scene negate all appearances? Sure, why not? This is paintball after all but if nothing else my posts afford you what I think is a fairly rational view of what this all looks like from outside the maelstrom. For whatever that's worth. :)
 

Christian-Malera

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Originally posted by Magued
Baco.

I would say that its the NPPL fault that it is confronting dates. No secrets there. And I think they handled it very badly!

But alot of people now try to take advantage of the situation to give their teams a edge. It was pretty clear during the CL meeting when some teams even tried to make the legue lock the rooster after the first event. Making it impossible for the NPPL team to participate.
And also Petes idea regarding the average score was turned down. Conspiracy? No, just short minded people thinking they could get a good result by not having any opponents.

Magued
Where the idea of an average score brought up?
 

sjt19

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Originally posted by Christian-Malera
Where the idea of an average score brought up?
Yes, I brought it up at the meeting. It was turned down if I remember rightly.

Personally, I hope the matter will be resolved in such a way to allow Joy and Nexus to play. Not fussed about XSV as it is a European League, but losing Joy and Nexus would be a blow to the validity of the league.

From the point of view of Joy and Nexus, they are being penalised for doing well in the US, and are being penalised for something that is not their fault.

From the point of view of the league, if the MS conceede it wil appear as they are admitting that they are second fiddle to the NPPL, which wont happen. They announced dates first, and then changed the date of Marseille when the NPPL put HB on the same date. Now the NPPL have moved again, one could say that it is they that have engineered the problem.

From a teams point of view, we are due to ply XSV at the first event. Whilst I know we will not be playing XSV, if they put no team in at all, then we will get less games for our money, this affects every team in the CPL. I dont know what it will be like from a scheduling point of view, but I doubt a 13 team attendance will be easy to manage.

Its sad that it has come down to this, and that the issue could not have been sorted out earlier giving people more time to discuss the issue and make arrangements.

I know something will be worked out, as not having Joy and Nexus in the Millennium would be a huge shame, and surely will not be allowed to happen.

Best of luck in HB guys

Sam
 

Nick Brockdorff

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Pete and Magued:

Since everyone agrees the NPPL is to blame for the scheduling conflict, have you attempted to get the NPPL to give you average points for the first event - and then play Marseille instead?

I'm just curious.... as while I completely appreciate your predicament, I am hard pressed to see the NPPL Pro teams react any differently to such a suggestion, than you elude to the European ones doing.

Looking in from the outside - I know that some of the teams that will end up at the bottom of the seasonal standings, are trying to stop the "average points" idea from gaining support, simply because they are trying to get a better placement in the standings and save their own asses......

- but for the teams that will be fighting for top position with you guys, like Menace, Ignition and (my personal tip) Phoenix Russia.... I can certainly see why average points might seem unfair, if they were not also allowed to get an average of their 4 best results.

You might say "but we aren't there for one event - and they are.... and that is true... but from their perspective it is "but we are playing all 5, and they are not" ;)

Easy solution would be to place all teams in the standings according to their 4 best results... and still maintaining the requirement that all teams had to play all 5 events.

Nick