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Millennium --- missing the point!

stongle

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Aug 23, 2002
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Originally posted by Steve Hancock
You didn't answer my question about Sunday league footy, do you consider it a sport? I'm sure that they don't have at least weekly training.

Maybe I'm just less aware of how the majority of teams train and conduct themselves. My lot train fortnightly on sup‘air and have at least weekly fitness training, (ok we scrapped last Wednesday’s run because of the snow, but about half the squad had already been for a run on the Monday). Does that meet your standards of partaking in a sport? And we are only Div 4 PA. My impression was that other teams were training in a similar manner; I guess I may be wrong, but I still don’t think that means they are not partaking in a sport.

I will admit that a lot of teams don’t train or conduct themselves in a very athletic way, but I do feel there is a trend away from this. One of the things behind this trend might be the more stable team structure that PA registration has brought in, and the need for ongoing consistency with a true league system. When scratch teams were the norm and you could be playing for one team one week and another the week after, and the results of an event had no significance in a wider or more long term context, an environment that encouraged ongoing development wasn’t there. There was no constancy, and thus no long term goals, plans or motivation.

Now there is and the way paintball is conducted is changing, the players are starting to act more like sportsmen (non-gender specific). But that doesn’t mean that someone playing in a scratch novice event isn’t playing a sport, sure the level of performance is lower, sure they are not putting as much in, but they are just further down on the same scale.
Sunday League football is a sport by the status bestowed upon it by the Sports Council, paintball is not.

I don't view even the level of bi-weekly training and once a week in the gym, as "training" for the "sport" of Paintball. Sure a step in the right direction, but I think even you are in the minority here.

I play golf bi-weekly, driving range once or twice a week, and it's still only a recreation, not a Sport (and Golf has sporting status).

The point, to move back on thread is, shying away from the best level of competition is doing both yourselves and the Major series a disservice. Paintball as a Global small sport only really supports 3/4 ability levels: Pro, Semi Pro / Div 1, Am / Div 2, Rookie / Div 3. I can't think of a UK Team that is ranking top 5 in any of those ability classifications (apologies if I'm wrong). Even dismissing the Americans (and possibly Pro although the tope 2 spots belong to Joy and Legion), UK teams are not qualifying for the top spots, hinting at serious issues in our Paintball "sporting" ability.

The grass roots up struggle is required, but we're a long way from there yet. You should see read the Pearly King's return thread.
 

stongle

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Originally posted by Y2chris99
your right but just manc were 7th and kellys and hybrid missed the top 10 i think they were 11 and 12th
Yep these guys did well not playing all events, but not top 5, and strangely none in the PA.
 

Steve Hancock

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Sunday League football is a sport by the status bestowed upon it by the Sports Council, paintball is not.
The sports council has not recognised any new sports since the start of lottery funding, in order to prevent the slices of the funding pir being further split. If you have a look at there list of recognised sports ther are some notable ommissions.

I'll respond to the rest when i've had a chance to read through them after my lecture. But in short all of what you say, holds true if you replace "sport" with "elite sport", other than that we may just have to agree to differ in opinion.
 

Y2chris99

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Originally posted by stongle
Yep these guys did well not playing all events, but not top 5, and strangely none in the PA.
yeah not top 5 but whys it strange that they didnt play pa? the pa doesnt really set the uk standard and most of the top uk teams dont actually play it
 

Steve Hancock

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Tigers are playing it (and they will be fielding there pro line up except on the two mill clashes), and manc union has quite a few of the top players on their squad from kellys and nexus, Apparently several of the jags x-ball players are signed with a div 1 team as well.
 

RoryM

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So the Tigers are choosing to play the Milleniums over the PA as they clash, this harks back to one of the original points made in this thread, whcich was the winge about announcement of dates. Maybe if the PA league had not been so quick to release their schedule, they could have ensured full attendance in every leg. And obviously it wont just be the Tigers missing from those legs from what we read above.

So that just about kicks that argument out of the stadium, and as for the sport thing - lets not kid ourselves, unless you are on an NXL ubersquad or a Dynorat/XSV action figure, paintball 'the sport' is your hobby, not a career/way of life/etc ad nauseum.
 

Gyroscope

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This is semantic foolishness, IMO. If you play basketball, you don't have to be an NBA player to be participating in a sport. You are not a professional athelete unless you are paid to play, maybe not even unless you support yourself by playing, but I think that this self flagellation is silly.

It isn't a sport until the government says it is? Right, because something isn't real until it is codified by a ruling body that citizens feel little ability to influence (based on what some people have told me about UK laws and the ability to be a successful activist or lobbyist).

You have to practice/ train a certain number of times per week to be participating in a sport? Right, because whether or not you are any good describes the activity. A sport is a sport, even if you are a dilettante. I'd say that my personal aptitude at football has little to do with its validity as a sport.

Besides, according to what you guys have written here, it seems that the British have a standing in these Sunday footy league that is not commensurate with the time spent in training. Native ability has as much or no, that's also ridiculous, much more to do with successful competition than time spent preparing.

You guys can beat up on yourselves all you want, but the reason that the European teams don't have teams at the top of the rankings in paintball is not because you aren't serious enough. That is a half-assed motivational speech at best. The reason you don't stand at the top of the rankings is due to the smaller player pool. Robbo teased me once about the lack of pro teams from Colorado. This is not because Co0lorado paintball players don't train right, or aren't "sportsmen," or any such nonsense. There aren't any pro teams from Colorado at the moment because the player pool is too small. California has tons of pro teams, and it isn't just the weather. The populatiopn of players in California is huge compared to Colorado (or the UK) and there is a greater chance that someone with amazing talent is playing paintball, rather than doing something else like footy. You don't have as much participation, the barriers for players moving from casual recreational play to serious competition are greater, and because the UK is isolated from the larger local community (Europe) a greater commitment is required before playing in a larger competitive population.

My notions of the typical paintball experience may be outdated, and I may be wildly off base on that subject, but lacking companies local to Europe, a large player base with a statistically greater chance of hosting a Michael Jordan of paintball, and more obstacles in the way of progressing from casual play to serious competitive play account for the lack of success that Euros currently experience. You guys aren't outplayed by teams from Iowa, you are outplayed by teams from California, Peensylvannia, Florida, and other areas with large local populations and eaier access to players from different regions.

Not sportsmen. Bah. Who cares what you call it?
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
Gyro,

I agree with most of what you say, but would just like to point out that I never said that paintball is not a sport.
What I said is that the way some people go about their 'ballin means thay treat it like a fun thing to do, rather than a serious sport. This does not take away anything from paintball's status as a sport, in the same way that two kids throwing a pigskin around in the backyard takes away from the NFL's status.
I'm sure you'll agree that those two kids need to do more than throw the ball around if they aspire to one day play in the NFL.

Then again, I'm not sure your post was aimed at me... :D