Millennium --- missing the point!

[Buddha 3]

MS

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Now... if you ask me about X-Ball, or other issues.... you'll get me fired up - but that is a whole other thread

Nick

Put that thread up then Nick. Seems well worth discussing.

 

[Chicago]

Originally posted by Parksy
To say that this is uncommon I think is a reflection of how the company you work for runs not a reflection of how a lot of others do...

I think it's an accurate reflection of the working arrangements of the vast majority of paintballers. And if you do work full-time at a company where your vacation must be cleared a year in advance, maybe you should just accept that you may not be able to have a professional career and maintain your dreams of being an international paintball star at the same time.

 

[Just Curious]

Chicago,

I work for an International Bank and my Holiday requests for the full year need to be submitted at the start of the year. Our Team has a mixture of tradesmen and everyone of them are in the same boat! So from my/our point of view, getting the dates a.s.a.p is essential so that we can plan our season.
I think at last count the average age of the Team was 35/36 so we don't have any illusions about becoming 'International Paintball Stars' but that does not stop us wanting to attend these events.
Our 'organizational skills' are quite adequate when given enough information hence the purpose of this thread.

Teams have no reasonable need to know precise event dates/locations more than 90, and really not more than 60, days out.

How do you know what teams need/require? Are you talking from your own Teams experience? If so, do you really think that can be applied to all Teams?

They make money, they OWE us

Where did I say that? Nowhere in my post have I mentioned money except in reply to you. Of course they make money, thats why they run the events, fair play to them, its a business after all and I did say that the quality of the events was worth the money.

they're doing you a huge favor.

Explain how they are doing me a favor? They have given a cost for entry to these events which we are quite prepared to pay so where along the line are they doing us favors? Yeah, I know the refs get paid crap 'wages' and the usual blah,blah but thats their choice to do the job, I still don't see where they are doing me any favors. I have paid my entry fee as requested now put on what you have promised for that entry fee. Simple as.

 

[Chicago]

Originally posted by Just Curious
How do you know what teams need/require? Are you talking from your own Teams experience? If so, do you really think that can be applied to all Teams?

I didn't say all teams. I said it wasn't REASONABLE to require more than 90 days notice. We don't live in a world where it's reasonable to expect most things to be scheduled more than 90 days in advance, including paintball tournaments.

Explain how they are doing me a favor? They have given a cost for entry to these events which we are quite prepared to pay so where along the line are they doing us favors? Yeah, I know the refs get paid crap 'wages' and the usual blah,blah but thats their choice to do the job, I still don't see where they are doing me any favors. I have paid my entry fee as requested now put on what you have promised for that entry fee. Simple as.

They are doing you a favor by providing you with an affordable event in spite of it not being financially attractive for them to do so. (By financially attractive, I'm talking about spending their time promoting these events instead of on more financially rewarding endeavours these people are capable of - or just taking more vacation themselves.)

And you get what you pay for. When you ahve people providing you their time at below-market value, bitching about it because the time tey are DONATING to the cause doesn't get the events up early enough is silly.

Did you ever stop to consider that if it's not convenient for you to attend events unless you have a year's notice that the problem is that YOU need a year's notice, not that the event isn't announced a year early?

Put another way, your entry fee does not include being notified of dates and locations a year in advance. Not giving them to yu a year in advance is NOT a problem with Millenium, it's a problem with your unreasonable expectations.


You sure you're not an American?

 

[Gyroscope]

I think the last statement actually get at it Chicago; they aren't Americans. Them Europeans are kinda funny 'bout vacation time. I am not sure of all the specifics, but I know that expectations and customs are wildly different on that subject there and here.
Also, a lot of players in the US work in paintball. I believe that there are fewer industry jobs in Europe, though I may be mistaken there. It might be that jobs that allow what we would think of as normal conditions required for participation are uncommon enough that there wouldn't be a European series if they did it our way.
Just a thought. Also they love whining about vacation in Europe.

 

[Chicago]

Most players in the states don't work in the industry either, outside of the top sonsorships/divisions anyway.

I'm sure there are businesses in Europe just like there are businesses here that are anal about vacation time - but I don't know any bankers who expect to play 5 national events a year either.

This is really all jsut a reflection of my personal disdain for the 'The world should accomodate me, damnit!' attitude.

 

[Steve Morris]

Originally posted by gyroscope
...they love whining about vacation in Europe...

At least we get some vacation (those lucky enough to be employed). What's the European average? 5 weeks? What's the American average?

 

[Liz]

I just feel it shows a general lack of professionalism. In many sports the dates for the year are given at the end of the previous year, at least for the higher level competitions. The domestic and national level series in paintball can do this so why can't one of the top 3 in the world, a truely international series, manage this? Most if not all of the Millennium organisers are people in responsible positions in their non-Millennium businesses, which implies to me at least the ability to plan. So how come they can't apply this skill to their tournament scheduling?

I think most people will admit that without the lower level teams most Millennium tournaments wouldn't make any money at all or would lose money. These are the teams who only attend 2-3 events at the most and often only their nearest one and are entering more for the experience than looking for big series points, and their main seasonal focus has to be their position in the national leages. They are then faced by a dilemma - do they attend the Millennium event and give up any chance of winning their relevant domestic league, or do they miss out on the fun of the Millenniums so they can keep what little team assistance they have by holding their position?

The arguement seems to be that the Millenniums are so very important that anyone else just has to arrange their whole lives around them and break other committments because THEY can't get organised in reasonable time. This strikes me as very arrogant, and arrogance is a rather unattractive trait in anyone whatever their importance.

 

[Chicago]

Originally posted by Liz
The domestic and national level series in paintball can do this so why can't one of the top 3 in the world, a truely international series, manage this?

How many of your domestic/national series have events that are *NOT* at paintball fields?

That are run by a group of several promoters?

Have to accomodate 6, 7, 8 fields?

I could announce the 2007 schedule for Chicago's Backyard 7-man Series right now, but that wouldn't be a good comparison either.

 

[Buddha 3]

Chi,

I agree with some of what you say, but also disagree with some of what you say...

2-3 months notice for the exact venue is plenty, usually, when it comes to booking hotels. I know some teams like to book hotels that are almost on site, but most don't mind a little travel through the city.

However, when it comes to specific dates, it's ridiculous. Booking your flights more than 3 months in advance can save you as much as 40% of the ticket price, and that's a big deal.

I agree that most of us can book time off with only a few weeks notice, but the ticket price alone should be enough reason to announce dates way ahead of the actual event.

This short term planning is also one of the reasons why it's hard to find major outside sponsorship for many events. Big companies have their budgets set way before the MS makes their dates public, and trying to get an event sponsored without being able to tell them exactly when and where it will happen just ain't gonna fly. It does smack of unprofessionalism.

That said, I also understand the pressure put on promoters (having witnessed it up close more than once), when despite popular belief, hosting an event isn't their core business, but rather a nice little thing on the side.

It's still a problem though. However, players do have a chance to vote with their feet.