Mil Series question

[Saris]

A humble punter's opinion - please listen

And here in a nutshell have we the answer to all the pleads of "why on earth won't they make paintball a sport for chrissake"

you can imagine the feedback to BBC/Sky/ITV etc when they cut from a game of Dynasty vs RL to the in-studio pundits, who then "debate" in such a grownup manner. Me, I'd just hit the off button and laugh.

However even within the thread, the good ol' p8 faithful get a battering unbeknownst to them (probably because they are debating marker accuracy):

"was he there in Pittsburgh playing ?"
- neither were 95% of the forum users

"Has he ever played in a pro game?"
- neither have 95% of the forum users

Has he ever come over here and seen a Millennium?
- neither have 95% of the forum users. Well, ok if you include CC and AMS then bring this down to 75%, which is still a pretty generously high percentage. And those figures are only because of vicinity - if someone on an American board asked a similar question wrt NPPL then we can ride back up to at least 95%.

These are the people who are on this forum day in day out, talking about paint to barrel match, kit bags, how to fan a trigger, where to bling up your kit, and other riveting topics. From the above you can assume they are no-marks whose opinion doesn't count either.

The massive who refuse to type the language that they speak are still in a txt fest sumwere talking about who 2 talk 2 about da gun dat dey saw sum1 wif. blingfest 4 me sum day.

All in all a fairly amusing scenario when you compare it to other "public" forums on the web - it's good to regress and lurk in some childishness 4 a wile. The amount of threads that end based on the question/topic raised at the start can be counted on the fingers of Jeremy Beadle's bad hand. A veritable lesson in forking. It's all cool with me though, and please nobody ban me because I do find this genuinely fascinating.

 

[Robbo]

Ya know what, if there was discussion on say, differential equations, one might assume that people who do not possess a working knowledge of calculus would tend to stay clear.

Now if you do choose to get involved by saying something controversial and the people already involved are well versed in the subject, is it hardly surprising your credentials are gonna be questioned?

I fully appreciate that the vast majority of people weren't at the Pittsburgh Nation's Cup and this should not preclude anybody from commenting on it...but, Magued was playing in it, the point he was making was that he felt the judges were being biased.
Baca inferred this was BS and merely a case of belly-aching because the Swedes lost..I had every right to question his presence at this tournament especially when you put it into the context of his other comments regarding us Euro’s alleged predisposition for excuse making.

I have been involved in several games playing for American pro teams where I KNOW we had bent decisions whilst playing in the US against Euro teams.

A lot of my friends are American pros, I know what goes on, I had every right to question Baca's credentials in this sport as he was questioning my integrity in suggesting I was merely manufacturing built-in excuses.
If you say something as inflammatory as he did in this forum, directed against us Euros, then you better make damn sure it's substantiated, I and Magued can substantiate what we said, he cannot, he hasn't been there, never will be, end of !

 

[martin]

calculus

i can do calculus!
Go on Pete set me some qeustions

 

[Robbo]

AAARRRGGGHH - I SO wanted to stay AWAY.....

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
....but this is just TOO tempting !


Robbo:

You should not resort to swearing or insults in here - as a representative of PGI, Nexus and British paintball - I think it is entirely wrong and creates an unpleasant debating environment.

Saying you have the bigger manhood, strongest dad, most expensive car, prettyest wife, largest income, best reults in paintball - or whatever - will seldom win you any points in an intellectual debate.

But you should also think about the fact that saying you need to have won major events, to have a view on them, is the same as saying this forum should be limited to - what ? - 15-20 of the current users ?.... I my best guess would be that that is NOT in the best interest of PGI ?


Nick

Nick, I knew you couldn't keep away !!
However, I am fully aware I shouldn't resort to swearing but ignorant ass posts seem to rile me especially coming from somebody who has a brain in their head as Paul has.
His whole tone was arrogant and supercilious, and I just thought, who the fackin hell does he think he is in telling myself, Mag and the rest of us Europeans we just make excuses to explain away his nation's dominance over a pathetic little continent like Europe.
Now you know me well enough Nick to also know I ain't gonna speak the Queen's English, that ain't my way and if he wants to insult me, then I'll react, it's as simple as that.
Never said I was right in swearing and insulting back, never would.
But if you wanna say something inflammatory and light the blue touch paper then don't frikkin moan the firework off.
I have no idea what you are on about in saying I won major events, it was never mentioned in this thread, I just asked what his credentials were in the light of him implying we were just making excuses about judges.
I mean, the whole premise of that line was hinged upon Mag's experience in Pittsburgh and my experiences playing for an American team against Euro opposition with American judges, I just felt that since Mag was in Pittsburgh and played and I had had some experience, then he needed to declare his credentials if he was gonna try and tell everybody we were just indulging in BS.
I might be an arse on here sometimes Nick, but I don't lie or BS on these boards and I know what I am talking about, any more than that, I'll let you debate.

 

[Mak D - Nexus Eclipse]

AAARRRGGGHH - I SO wanted to stay AWAY.....

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff

(And then I might give me the chance to use Robbos "What the fcuk have you ever won" defence, on Mac D, when he comes on here all clever and says "I told you so"......)

Ha.... told you so

And before you ask, I won a quid from a scratchcard on Tuesday

Mak (with a K) D

 

[Baca Loco]

AAARRRGGGHH - I SO wanted to stay AWAY.....

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
QUOTE]Same old, same old. It's y'all who were missing the point of evil.one's post which is a counter to all the pre-emptive moaning, whining and general hand-wringing if RL should lose Div 1 Xball at Namacolin since the excuses are already built in and were being bandied about whilst anxiously awaiting the results of yesterday's Ava match.

Mags, I guess that goes double for all the Eurokids who live vicariously off every "triumph" of some other Euro team. Course if they were to shut up the post count around here would drop into the negatives.[

A---Paul - I simply do not get where you are coming from - I think you'll have to elaborate quite a bit to make it clear !

1. How is Euro kids going "GO RL" in here, any different that US kids going "Go Dynasty" on Smacktalk ?

2. How is Europeans ballers being proud of a Euro team that does well, any different that the semi-coherent chants of "U-S-A" whenever the US does well at a sport ?

3. How are explanations for failure in paintball any different, than the US press today being full of "explanations" for the US Olympic Basket teams failure to make the final game ?

4. Do you honestly believe that saying the judges fcuked up is an especially "European" thing ? (If so - have a chat with your son about what his team felt was the reason for them not making the final game at the Nations Cup at Campaign last year - I'll bet you he'll set you straight on this issue....... I even seem to recollect YOU hinting at the judges being to blame in here, I just can't be bothered to dig it out right now) !

5. What exactly is it you are looking for ? - for Euro teams to say "yeah, we lost because they played better than us" ? - That happens ALL the time.... it's just not a "story", so you seldom hear about it.

6. Why are Americans the only ones allowed to feel pride in national or regional matters - and why does it offend you when non-americans display similar pride ?

7. What's so bad about European paintball anyhow ? - whithout it, you guys would still be running around at major events, trying to shoot eachother through the plamettos in Florida.

8. Would you bet against a veiw that the US should actually be much more dominant than is the case in paintball, if player base, economics, industry support, number of events, number of teams, etc. were factored in ?

9. How do you respond to the view that it is quite a bit easier to handle defeat "professionally", when you are a "Pro" that has an entirely free ride, than when you are a "Pro" that has spent half his months salery (from his "real" work) attending the event ?

(See - I can play the numbers game also !)

+ + +

Robbo:

But you should also think about the fact that saying you need to have won major events, to have a view on them, is the same as saying this forum should be limited to - what ? - 15-20 of the current users ?.... I my best guess would be that that is NOT in the best interest of PGI ?

Nick [/QUOTE] A--my original point was that making excuses for not winning is counterproductive and regardless of the validity of Pete's reasons for Euro struggles they only hurt when used as a crutch. Which is precisely what is happening (at least insofar as the "evidence" from Euro posters would generally suggest.)
Given that view, and the history of posts here at P8ntballer the first quote simply pointed out the obvious. While the majority of posters desperately wanted RL to do well they were already priming themselves (and RL) for failure. I'm not suggesting it's a peculiarly Euro mentality but it seems to be a prevalent one with regards to paintball.
As to the second part of the quote see your third response to Pete, that's what I meant.
1--in many ways probably no different at all but I would suggest that the emotional investment of the Euros in having anybody knock off the Americans is a couple of magnitudes higher than anyone over here cares about one team or another--for the most part. That and a lot of the posters here aren't kids.
The other thing to consider is my responses were all related to the general premise I started with so if you look at them in that light my meaning may be clearer. (Obviously it rapidly devolved into something less than analytical debate. )
2--See number 1.
3--you picked the wrong one here, Nick. The bulk of the US sporting press has been excoriating Team USA from Day 1 as have the overwhelming majority of B-ball fans. Most peeps have been actively rooting for them to lose. Go Argentina!
But let's say you're correct and go from there. The problem is context. It may be perfectly valid as part of the process of analysis to enumerate all the reasons why past results have been what they were. But what's good for coaches or fodder for fans isn't necessarily the mindset you want players to have and this is where it's become a problem. In this particular instance I would say that a) the reasons given do not contribute in any way to future improvement, and b) whether intended or not have been grabbed upon by way too many competitors and used as a crutch to excuse failure.
4--of course not but again, in this context, it's a Euro standard to trot out the biased judging excuse as if it's a one way street and never happened to anyone else. And there is a substantial difference between being royally pissed and running around telling everyone who will listen how you got screwed.
5--I'm not looking for anything in particular. I was just, highly unpopularly, pointing out that it seems like the excuse reflex has become part of the general Euro mentality and it's not a good thing.
6--doesn't offend me in the slightest but as I said before I think the magnitude of emotion is way different and most of the posters will take an RL win as vindication of all Euro Paintball. Which is OK too except it won't be true.
7--I've got absolutely nothing against Euro PB or any Euro baller and even believe an RL win in PA would be a good thing (which I posted earlier today in the Mod's forum). If I'm right about the general tendency of the Euro PB mentality to tacitly accept failure--knowingly or not--then I'm actually doing y'all a favor. Obviously it isn't everyone--which point I posted earlier--and isn't exclusively a Euro issue--the same happens over here but for different reasons.
8--I don't think it's relevant. It certainly isn't relevant for any Euro baller determined to succeed.
It seems y'all have latched onto the us vs. them aspect and that wasn't my point at all.
9--again, I don't think it matters. I'm not talking about good winners and poor losers. I'm talking about the frame of mind and approach to competing that either contributes to success or to failure. You know what they say, sport is 50% physical and 90% mental.

Good to have you back, Nick.

And yes, I probably could have and should have said all that in a less incendiary way before but sometimes when sparks and tinder are mixed you end up with fire.

 

[Mario]

Re: AAARRRGGGHH - I SO wanted to stay AWAY.....

Originally posted by Mak D - Nexus Eclipse
And before you ask, I won a quid from a scratchcard on Tuesday

man, some people get all the luck

My opinion: we just dont like the americans........













...to win of course

 

[Wadidiz]

Re: AAARRRGGGHH - I SO wanted to stay AWAY.....

Originally posted by Baca Loco
I think...most of the posters will take an RL win as vindication of all Euro Paintball. Which is OK too except it won't be true.

Of course Euros shouldn't take an RL win as a vindication of all Euro PB. But it does give some kind of indications, benchmarks if you will.

For example, if Russian Legion beat Infamous by 6 points it puts Joy into perspective when they got beat by RL by around the same amount of points? Or?

EDIT ADDED: Steve, if it works for you, sure, why not? I would certainly advocate using the matches for instructive purposes but given my general view as previously expressed I think making that sort of judgment may not be particulary helpful either. But hey, that's just me, Mr. Unpopular

 

[Mak D - Nexus Eclipse]

Dunno wot happened here

post below

 

[Mak D - Nexus Eclipse]

Re: Re: AAARRRGGGHH - I SO wanted to stay AWAY.....

Originally posted by Baca Loco
A---Paul - I simply do not get where you are coming from - I think you'll have to elaborate quite a bit to make it clear !

1. How is Euro kids going "GO RL" in here, any different that US kids going "Go Dynasty" on Smacktalk ?

2. How is Europeans ballers being proud of a Euro team that does well, any different that the semi-coherent chants of "U-S-A" whenever the US does well at a sport ?

3. How are explanations for failure in paintball any different, than the US press today being full of "explanations" for the US Olympic Basket teams failure to make the final game ?

4. Do you honestly believe that saying the judges fcuked up is an especially "European" thing ? (If so - have a chat with your son about what his team felt was the reason for them not making the final game at the Nations Cup at Campaign last year - I'll bet you he'll set you straight on this issue....... I even seem to recollect YOU hinting at the judges being to blame in here, I just can't be bothered to dig it out right now) !

5. What exactly is it you are looking for ? - for Euro teams to say "yeah, we lost because they played better than us" ? - That happens ALL the time.... it's just not a "story", so you seldom hear about it.

6. Why are Americans the only ones allowed to feel pride in national or regional matters - and why does it offend you when non-americans display similar pride ?

7. What's so bad about European paintball anyhow ? - whithout it, you guys would still be running around at major events, trying to shoot eachother through the plamettos in Florida.

8. Would you bet against a veiw that the US should actually be much more dominant than is the case in paintball, if player base, economics, industry support, number of events, number of teams, etc. were factored in ?

9. How do you respond to the view that it is quite a bit easier to handle defeat "professionally", when you are a "Pro" that has an entirely free ride, than when you are a "Pro" that has spent half his months salery (from his "real" work) attending the event ?

(See - I can play the numbers game also !)

+ + +

Robbo:

But you should also think about the fact that saying you need to have won major events, to have a view on them, is the same as saying this forum should be limited to - what ? - 15-20 of the current users ?.... I my best guess would be that that is NOT in the best interest of PGI ?

A--my original point was that making excuses for not winning is counterproductive and regardless of the validity of Pete's reasons for Euro struggles they only hurt when used as a crutch. Which is precisely what is happening (at least insofar as the "evidence" from Euro posters would generally suggest.)
Given that view, and the history of posts here at P8ntballer the first quote simply pointed out the obvious. While the majority of posters desperately wanted RL to do well they were already priming themselves (and RL) for failure. I'm not suggesting it's a peculiarly Euro mentality but it seems to be a prevalent one with regards to paintball.
As to the second part of the quote see your third response to Pete, that's what I meant.
1--in many ways probably no different at all but I would suggest that the emotional investment of the Euros in having anybody knock off the Americans is a couple of magnitudes higher than anyone over here cares about one team or another--for the most part. That and a lot of the posters here aren't kids.
The other thing to consider is my responses were all related to the general premise I started with so if you look at them in that light my meaning may be clearer. (Obviously it rapidly devolved into something less than analytical debate. )
2--See number 1.
3--you picked the wrong one here, Nick. The bulk of the US sporting press has been excoriating Team USA from Day 1 as have the overwhelming majority of B-ball fans. Most peeps have been actively rooting for them to lose. Go Argentina!
But let's say you're correct and go from there. The problem is context. It may be perfectly valid as part of the process of analysis to enumerate all the reasons why past results have been what they were. But what's good for coaches or fodder for fans isn't necessarily the mindset you want players to have and this is where it's become a problem. In this particular instance I would say that a) the reasons given do not contribute in any way to future improvement, and b) whether intended or not have been grabbed upon by way too many competitors and used as a crutch to excuse failure.
4--of course not but again, in this context, it's a Euro standard to trot out the biased judging excuse as if it's a one way street and never happened to anyone else. And there is a substantial difference between being royally pissed and running around telling everyone who will listen how you got screwed.
5--I'm not looking for anything in particular. I was just, highly unpopularly, pointing out that it seems like the excuse reflex has become part of the general Euro mentality and it's not a good thing.
6--doesn't offend me in the slightest but as I said before I think the magnitude of emotion is way different and most of the posters will take an RL win as vindication of all Euro Paintball. Which is OK too except it won't be true.
7--I've got absolutely nothing against Euro PB or any Euro baller and even believe an RL win in PA would be a good thing (which I posted earlier today in the Mod's forum). If I'm right about the general tendency of the Euro PB mentality to tacitly accept failure--knowingly or not--then I'm actually doing y'all a favor. Obviously it isn't everyone--which point I posted earlier--and isn't exclusively a Euro issue--the same happens over here but for different reasons.
8--I don't think it's relevant. It certainly isn't relevant for any Euro baller determined to succeed.
It seems y'all have latched onto the us vs. them aspect and that wasn't my point at all.
9--again, I don't think it matters. I'm not talking about good winners and poor losers. I'm talking about the frame of mind and approach to competing that either contributes to success or to failure. You know what they say, sport is 50% physical and 90% mental.

Good to have you back, Nick.

And yes, I probably could have and should have said all that in a less incendiary way before but sometimes when sparks and tinder are mixed you end up with fire.

Damm you must of spent AGES writing that man, you must have put alot of time in that right there! Reading over it to check its all good n all that stuff, linking all those quotes!!!!

A mean your talkin bout 30 mins writing a post!

Still think your a bit of a **** like, but all the same good effort though

Mak D