Lasoya needs banned
- Thread starter Radium
- Start date
A baseball bat being swung is far more dangerous than a paintball. If damage was done(beyond bleeding and a welt), I could understand charges being pressed. But from what I've gathered, it resulted in no serious harm or injury, and thus I cannot see any reason to sue or go to the authorities.
See, that doesn't work. The point is that damage COULD have been done, and there was no reason for the victim to be put at risk of having damage done other than Chris Lasoya's lack of control, or perhaps desire to entertain himself at someone else's expense.
Even the IDEA of doing what Chris did wouldn't even enter the heads of most players. That Chris even considered it, much less acted on it, and given that he's proven he's capable of doing similar things inthe past, shows that this guy has an atypical behavior problem that has a negative impact on the rest of the sport and he should be penalized for it either until he figures out how to control himself or nobody is willing to have him on his team because of the penalties he brings along with him.
Not that that will ever happen, which is one of the reasons paintball has so much trouble - it can't decide if it's a sport or a club.
I'm not sure this is as much an isolated incident as an egregious example of a larger issue, namely the self-centered, irresponsible nature of the sport these days. Over the past few years the sport has glorified and excused bad behaviour. We're not the only sport to do this. Basketball, football, etc all have "bad boy" problems. The difference is that most other sports have clear boundaries for what "bad boys" can get away with.
bigbOYALA's comments are a perfect example of the attitude - "you assume certain risks when you play, and people being douchebags and shooting you point blank is one of them."
I'm sorry but people being "doucehbags" is not part of the game. No more so than it would be if the batter decided to smash the catcher over the head between pitches (baseball), a forward dropkicked a goalie before a penalty kick (soccer) or a hockey player clubbed an opposing player between periods (hockey). In each case, the tools of the sport are used to inflict harm outside the context of their use. I expect to get shot during a paintball game. I don't expect to get clubbed over the head. If you can't see the difference, you probably won't like what I say next.
The frequency of this type of behaviour is getting worse. Psycho Circus at World Cup? Or just look at any game and watch how many players throw fits after being eliminated. A certain degree of spontaneous expression is expected - it's an adrenalin-charged sport. But that doesn't mean there should be a complete lack of self-control.
I like Chris off the field, he seems like a pretty decent guy. And he usually comes back and apologizes for his more outlandish actions. But that doesn't make his actions right or acceptable in the first place.
I'm glad to see Oakland suspended him. Hopefully this marks a new trend in the sport, namely punishing excessive behaviour.
Shamu -
I am inclined to agree with the basis of your post more than any other here.
It seems ironic that the industry is damn near crippled at the moment. And most people claim it to be caused the sudden slowing of new players becoming returning players. And the same people who are suffering from this crisis are the ones who have coddled, at least, and promoted, at worst, the players and teams with the attitudes, temperament, and lack of self control and respect that we see today. They ones who are suffering are also the one who have continued to push the envelope with these guns and the rates at which they can "administer punishment".
Lasoya, Marcus, Aftershock of old, Todd Martinez, Avalanche of old, etc, etc, etc. I don't dislike these guys personally. As a matter of fact some of the worst characters are my best friends. I will also say that there have been occasions when I acted less than wonderful during and after games. So, I'm not meaning this as an attack on the players and /or teams necessarily.
Everyone loses their temper, or acts a bit foolish from time to time. But some do it repeatedly, if not consistently. This industry has not only allowed it, but promoted it.
Now you have a wave of kids who seem to have bought the marketing. They want to look and act like the very people they see the industry promote to them.
For the most part, it isn't a HUGE problem at the bigger events. I believe there is a sort of built in discipline at that level. Lasoya may be a prick, but he is a great player. But, while lesser players may control themselves a little more at national events, when they are at their home fields and at smaller events (the place where THEY are the big shots), they do not control it. They flaunt it. At the local tournaments, little Bobby is the Lasoya of his area, and he acts untouchable.
So, a bunch of punk wannabe badasses, who have guns that shoot 126 balls a second are everywhere. I wonder where the new players are.
People say that all sports have their bad boys. Well, yeah. But, those sports are established and have a built in player base and aren't nearly as dependent on new players as we are. And, while in the 80's and 90's basketball had the Rodmans, Malones, AI's, Kemps, and others - and they prospered, as that attitude and demeanor became more prevalent, to the point of being almost the norm, the NBA is so far down in every public interest category it isn't even a smear of where it was 10 years ago.
I guess this is just a rant. But, the whole attitude of players is really starting to piss me off. Anyone who knows me knows that I am no straight-laced angel type. I'm not one of the ones who beats the drum of the old school game of honor crap either. But, enough is enough.
Someone needs to start to thinking about why we are where we are. I have. I may be wrong, but for the moment my answer is because this is where we belong.
The industry is so incestuous it has cut it's own throat.
The tournaments are so narrow minded and arrogant that we've greatly limited what any of us will be able to achieve in the next five years.
The players are so short sighted and self involved that they have created a horrible environment for those trying to provide a real sport, and for the few who want to play a real sport.
Etc, etc, etc.
I guess my point is that we're reaping the seeds we've sown. We have to eat what we've grown, for now. But we better plant a better batch of seeds soon, or the field we're planting in may not be here for long.
I'm off the soap box for now. But, I've been watching this coming for years. I am sincerely worried.
I am inclined to agree with the basis of your post more than any other here.
It seems ironic that the industry is damn near crippled at the moment. And most people claim it to be caused the sudden slowing of new players becoming returning players. And the same people who are suffering from this crisis are the ones who have coddled, at least, and promoted, at worst, the players and teams with the attitudes, temperament, and lack of self control and respect that we see today. They ones who are suffering are also the one who have continued to push the envelope with these guns and the rates at which they can "administer punishment".
Lasoya, Marcus, Aftershock of old, Todd Martinez, Avalanche of old, etc, etc, etc. I don't dislike these guys personally. As a matter of fact some of the worst characters are my best friends. I will also say that there have been occasions when I acted less than wonderful during and after games. So, I'm not meaning this as an attack on the players and /or teams necessarily.
Everyone loses their temper, or acts a bit foolish from time to time. But some do it repeatedly, if not consistently. This industry has not only allowed it, but promoted it.
Now you have a wave of kids who seem to have bought the marketing. They want to look and act like the very people they see the industry promote to them.
For the most part, it isn't a HUGE problem at the bigger events. I believe there is a sort of built in discipline at that level. Lasoya may be a prick, but he is a great player. But, while lesser players may control themselves a little more at national events, when they are at their home fields and at smaller events (the place where THEY are the big shots), they do not control it. They flaunt it. At the local tournaments, little Bobby is the Lasoya of his area, and he acts untouchable.
So, a bunch of punk wannabe badasses, who have guns that shoot 126 balls a second are everywhere. I wonder where the new players are.
People say that all sports have their bad boys. Well, yeah. But, those sports are established and have a built in player base and aren't nearly as dependent on new players as we are. And, while in the 80's and 90's basketball had the Rodmans, Malones, AI's, Kemps, and others - and they prospered, as that attitude and demeanor became more prevalent, to the point of being almost the norm, the NBA is so far down in every public interest category it isn't even a smear of where it was 10 years ago.
I guess this is just a rant. But, the whole attitude of players is really starting to piss me off. Anyone who knows me knows that I am no straight-laced angel type. I'm not one of the ones who beats the drum of the old school game of honor crap either. But, enough is enough.
Someone needs to start to thinking about why we are where we are. I have. I may be wrong, but for the moment my answer is because this is where we belong.
The industry is so incestuous it has cut it's own throat.
The tournaments are so narrow minded and arrogant that we've greatly limited what any of us will be able to achieve in the next five years.
The players are so short sighted and self involved that they have created a horrible environment for those trying to provide a real sport, and for the few who want to play a real sport.
Etc, etc, etc.
I guess my point is that we're reaping the seeds we've sown. We have to eat what we've grown, for now. But we better plant a better batch of seeds soon, or the field we're planting in may not be here for long.
I'm off the soap box for now. But, I've been watching this coming for years. I am sincerely worried.
Ok first off I think cris is an awscrum player, and from what I have seen of him (ok DVDs ECT interviews) think he is a level guy. But these are some thoughts I have had and as I seam to be saying them again. So fair point
Every now and then this type of thread is appiereing,and it seams that like psplane said we must take it as we have made it, we all went out bought the Marcus neilson jawbreaker, and thought ha-ha funny, and the youngsters that see this want to emulitate it, like it was said earlier in the thread
“ but surely the act of putting a marker to the back of someone’s head and deliberately shooting him other than during a game of paintball amounts to nothing other than physical assault with a weapon no matter who it was or what the situation? “
Now I have said this before, when the ton tons we in campaign. that at some point some one form the police or authorities see this type of actions, they not the person on the floor will move for an act of assult.now we all agree to go on to the field and expect to get shot, we agree to this by playing the sport, but none of us agree to some one else putting a marker in the back of your head, that is assault? Some one causing harm to your without you consent. so at some point on tape some one will press for an assault charge on a player,ok we had the basketball term used, what about boxing, if a player gets knocked out by a lawful punch, then whilst unconus the other player continues to punch him that is unlawful. So where is the difference, once you’re out arm up “I am out “then to get 15 balls in the head?
If we want to see this sport not gets into a serous incident with the law being involved. then the bodies of people that are there to keep us safe must step up to there resonsablitys,ensure we as players of a sport are keep safe from harm when playing ? Or being on field, netting is put up to protect spectators. But the lack of actions to players that breach these rules seam to go unpunished and in some cases applauded, I know this is an aggressive sport but these types of unlawful actions must not be tolerated but us or our governing bodies?
Every now and then this type of thread is appiereing,and it seams that like psplane said we must take it as we have made it, we all went out bought the Marcus neilson jawbreaker, and thought ha-ha funny, and the youngsters that see this want to emulitate it, like it was said earlier in the thread
“ but surely the act of putting a marker to the back of someone’s head and deliberately shooting him other than during a game of paintball amounts to nothing other than physical assault with a weapon no matter who it was or what the situation? “
Now I have said this before, when the ton tons we in campaign. that at some point some one form the police or authorities see this type of actions, they not the person on the floor will move for an act of assult.now we all agree to go on to the field and expect to get shot, we agree to this by playing the sport, but none of us agree to some one else putting a marker in the back of your head, that is assault? Some one causing harm to your without you consent. so at some point on tape some one will press for an assault charge on a player,ok we had the basketball term used, what about boxing, if a player gets knocked out by a lawful punch, then whilst unconus the other player continues to punch him that is unlawful. So where is the difference, once you’re out arm up “I am out “then to get 15 balls in the head?
If we want to see this sport not gets into a serous incident with the law being involved. then the bodies of people that are there to keep us safe must step up to there resonsablitys,ensure we as players of a sport are keep safe from harm when playing ? Or being on field, netting is put up to protect spectators. But the lack of actions to players that breach these rules seam to go unpunished and in some cases applauded, I know this is an aggressive sport but these types of unlawful actions must not be tolerated but us or our governing bodies?
D
duffistuta
Guest
At PGi we are attempting to put in a bannings/suspensions panel in our PSP and NPPL tournament reports, listing who got penalised for what, as hopefully the negative exposure for the individuals/teams will have a knock on effect.
That said, we must stand up and say that we have given exposure to many of the sports bad boys - the Lasoyas, Nielsens, Rage etc. - because they are great players and, in a time of anondyne interviews in which players mindlessly thank sponsors and refuse to say anything of interest for fear of offending or upsetting anyone, they make good copy. Hopefully we balance that out through features on teams at the other end of the spectrum - the Ultimates and LTZs of this world.
It's a tricky line to walk and one that we have endless arguments about in the office.
This is a very interesting thread about a very interesting subject. I especially appreciate and strongly agree with Shamu's, Lane's and Duffy's posts. I too personally like Chris and consider him to generally be one of the best players around. I don't know the details of the exact situation discussed here so I'll only comment in a general way.
We who ref (or used to ref, in my case) have tough jobs. We have had to face these kind of situations and are put between a rock and a hard place. We're softy wusses if we don't apply penalties and Nazis if we do. And the biggest difficulty we face is the frustrating lack of consistency from ref to ref. Frustrating to the ref because if we "do the right thing" we go against much of the tide and frustrating to the players because they don't know what the real rules are.
An example: at an MS tournament a couple of years ago where I was in charge of the reffing I happened to be on-field and witnessed a player who jumped up and gave a hard shove from behind to the back of an opponent who had just bunkered him. He was pushed so hard that he came very close to falling down. The head field ref conferred with me and the other refs to sort out what happened and it was pointed out that the player who bunkered the shoving player put the tip of his barrel to his neck when he shot him (or so said one ref). Therefore the head ref had both players suspended despite both captains suggesting that they should let the two actions cancel each other.
After that I was severely castigated by members of both teams and one member of one of the teams, who I once thought my friend, has hardly even spoken to me since. This suspension was also forwarded publicly as an example of incompetency or bias against his team.
The point: as long as the reffing corps are not trained and required to deal with such matters TOTALLY CONSISTENTLY then the problem will continue to exacerbate and refs who do follow the rules (which may need to be toughened) will be singled out. This will have to be trained and supervised from the top down in all the leagues if we ever hope to get at least some control on this.
Incidently, a player from one of the teams discussed above posted on another forum last week a suggestion that players in his country should imitate "American pros" in area of attitude, including bonus balling and shooting refs. Encouraging, ain't it?
Duffy: Great idea about the list.
EDIT: It was Beaker's idea...proof positive that every dog does indeed have his day.
TFP.
We who ref (or used to ref, in my case) have tough jobs. We have had to face these kind of situations and are put between a rock and a hard place. We're softy wusses if we don't apply penalties and Nazis if we do. And the biggest difficulty we face is the frustrating lack of consistency from ref to ref. Frustrating to the ref because if we "do the right thing" we go against much of the tide and frustrating to the players because they don't know what the real rules are.
An example: at an MS tournament a couple of years ago where I was in charge of the reffing I happened to be on-field and witnessed a player who jumped up and gave a hard shove from behind to the back of an opponent who had just bunkered him. He was pushed so hard that he came very close to falling down. The head field ref conferred with me and the other refs to sort out what happened and it was pointed out that the player who bunkered the shoving player put the tip of his barrel to his neck when he shot him (or so said one ref). Therefore the head ref had both players suspended despite both captains suggesting that they should let the two actions cancel each other.
After that I was severely castigated by members of both teams and one member of one of the teams, who I once thought my friend, has hardly even spoken to me since. This suspension was also forwarded publicly as an example of incompetency or bias against his team.
The point: as long as the reffing corps are not trained and required to deal with such matters TOTALLY CONSISTENTLY then the problem will continue to exacerbate and refs who do follow the rules (which may need to be toughened) will be singled out. This will have to be trained and supervised from the top down in all the leagues if we ever hope to get at least some control on this.
Incidently, a player from one of the teams discussed above posted on another forum last week a suggestion that players in his country should imitate "American pros" in area of attitude, including bonus balling and shooting refs. Encouraging, ain't it?
Duffy: Great idea about the list.
EDIT: It was Beaker's idea...proof positive that every dog does indeed have his day.
TFP.
I'd just like to say...
we want new players to join the sport, and to encourage youngsters to take part in something that will give them an outlet for their aggression, in a controlled, diciplined way and give them a good reason to study hard to get a good job to be able to play!
And I hope I'm not alone in my wish to be rid of the mindless violence of the youth of today (ouch, I sound old!) and believe paintball to be a perfect way, for the above reasons.
Surely, for this to be accomplished, the top players should be trying to impress these youglings (the future of our sport) with discipline and fair play, not 'look at how well I can cheat' and using the same 'badass' attitude that we're trying to get rid of!
Just my view...
we want new players to join the sport, and to encourage youngsters to take part in something that will give them an outlet for their aggression, in a controlled, diciplined way and give them a good reason to study hard to get a good job to be able to play!
And I hope I'm not alone in my wish to be rid of the mindless violence of the youth of today (ouch, I sound old!) and believe paintball to be a perfect way, for the above reasons.
Surely, for this to be accomplished, the top players should be trying to impress these youglings (the future of our sport) with discipline and fair play, not 'look at how well I can cheat' and using the same 'badass' attitude that we're trying to get rid of!
Just my view...