Hey Rooster,
I'll send you an e-mail when I got a little more time to type, explaining the comparison.
Peace!
I'll send you an e-mail when I got a little more time to type, explaining the comparison.
Peace!
Just a question... What if it happened here?
- Thread starter TheRo0sTer
- Start date
Skip that.
On second thoughts, I'll just post my reply here.
First of all, I'm not on crack (and I resent that remark).
The reason I compare the dropping of the atom bombs on Japan to an act of terrorism is simply because, in my mind, it is. Just the fact that it's two governments that have declared war going at eachothers throats, doesn't diminish this in any way. Most terrorism is in some way backed by a government anyway (Osama and his buddies in Afghanistan, Libya, Irac, and so on). With hindsight perhaps the dropping of the two bombs was one of the few instances where 'strategic' bombing was not terrorbombing, because after all, it did indeed end the war, and thus the suffering of millions. However, the reason that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen was because they were hardly military objectives, and the destruction of these towns would not be a crippling blow to Japan. All this was conjured with the consideration of a occupation of Japan after the hostilities were ended, because the allies didn't really want control of a country that wasn't worth jack doodoo. Hence the Marshall plan for Westrn europe. In other words, a civilian target was deliberately picked, which makes it look like an act of terrorism (albeit government sponsored).
The terror bombing as it was used by the Germans at the start of the war to bring England to it's knees, and later on by the allies to do the same to Germany, were very much acts of terrorism. even today there is still debate on governmental level about if the allied nations should apologise to the german people for what most of the former allies today consider acts of terrorism. Keep in mind, like I said in my previous posting that it should also be considered in the spirit of the time. I for one think that this whole business of apologising for events perpetrated 60 years ago is a load of crap, even though my family suffered a lot as a result of the war.
The whole theory behind terror bombing is this; lt's blow up their civilian population and they'll be so intimidated that they'll surrender, or they'll get so scared, they'll become ineffective as a nation. Ask anybody that lived through the blitz on London and they'll tell you that yeah they were scared, but all it did was steel the national resolve and sense of unity, much like it is happening in the US at the moment. In the same way, Germany's spirit was not broken by the allied bombing raids on their cities, it just pissed them off.
Because of what I said don't think that I am some pacifist hippy tree hugger, because I'm not. Far from it. As a matter of fact, besides paintballing, conflicts throughout history, but modern history foremost are my main interest. You should see my library, I get the feeling that you are somewhat interested in the same thing (you're in the military?). All that I'm saying (but perhaps I didn't use my words properly) is that I fail to see any clear distinction between a war between two nations, a war between two ethnic groups, and a war between two idealisms. It's all just a bunch of people trying to kill eachother, though in most cases (especially the ethnic and the idealism thing) I can't see why it's worth fighting over. I wasn't trying to say that the US is a terrorist state at all! (I get the feeling that some people were beginning to think I was).
Hope this cleared a thing or two up.
P.S. Pickaxe, your history books are (partially) incorrect. the German people were only moving into a 24 hour production system during the latter stages of the war. But the had been using slave labour 24-7 for quite some time by then, and quite a lot of it too. My grandfather was a forced labourer in Germany during the war, working in a factory that was considered a strategic target.
The German people did go on a rations system almost at the start of the war, in order to prove to the world that the 'iron sons of national socialism' were capable of enduring any hardship. One of the German mistakes was that, unlike the Brits and yanks, they hardly made any use of the women in their society. According to their philosophy women were mostly good for childbearing.
One of the reasons that German production was a lot lower than that of comparable nations, is because they are a bunch of perfectionists. The stuff they made was of incredible quality, but this seriously slowed down production (things like the Me262 jet fighter, and the Tiger tanks are a good example), so they just ended up being flooded by the allies.
Anyway, enough of this. Let's get back to ballin'!!!!!
On second thoughts, I'll just post my reply here.
First of all, I'm not on crack (and I resent that remark).
The reason I compare the dropping of the atom bombs on Japan to an act of terrorism is simply because, in my mind, it is. Just the fact that it's two governments that have declared war going at eachothers throats, doesn't diminish this in any way. Most terrorism is in some way backed by a government anyway (Osama and his buddies in Afghanistan, Libya, Irac, and so on). With hindsight perhaps the dropping of the two bombs was one of the few instances where 'strategic' bombing was not terrorbombing, because after all, it did indeed end the war, and thus the suffering of millions. However, the reason that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen was because they were hardly military objectives, and the destruction of these towns would not be a crippling blow to Japan. All this was conjured with the consideration of a occupation of Japan after the hostilities were ended, because the allies didn't really want control of a country that wasn't worth jack doodoo. Hence the Marshall plan for Westrn europe. In other words, a civilian target was deliberately picked, which makes it look like an act of terrorism (albeit government sponsored).
The terror bombing as it was used by the Germans at the start of the war to bring England to it's knees, and later on by the allies to do the same to Germany, were very much acts of terrorism. even today there is still debate on governmental level about if the allied nations should apologise to the german people for what most of the former allies today consider acts of terrorism. Keep in mind, like I said in my previous posting that it should also be considered in the spirit of the time. I for one think that this whole business of apologising for events perpetrated 60 years ago is a load of crap, even though my family suffered a lot as a result of the war.
The whole theory behind terror bombing is this; lt's blow up their civilian population and they'll be so intimidated that they'll surrender, or they'll get so scared, they'll become ineffective as a nation. Ask anybody that lived through the blitz on London and they'll tell you that yeah they were scared, but all it did was steel the national resolve and sense of unity, much like it is happening in the US at the moment. In the same way, Germany's spirit was not broken by the allied bombing raids on their cities, it just pissed them off.
Because of what I said don't think that I am some pacifist hippy tree hugger, because I'm not. Far from it. As a matter of fact, besides paintballing, conflicts throughout history, but modern history foremost are my main interest. You should see my library, I get the feeling that you are somewhat interested in the same thing (you're in the military?). All that I'm saying (but perhaps I didn't use my words properly) is that I fail to see any clear distinction between a war between two nations, a war between two ethnic groups, and a war between two idealisms. It's all just a bunch of people trying to kill eachother, though in most cases (especially the ethnic and the idealism thing) I can't see why it's worth fighting over. I wasn't trying to say that the US is a terrorist state at all! (I get the feeling that some people were beginning to think I was).
Hope this cleared a thing or two up.
P.S. Pickaxe, your history books are (partially) incorrect. the German people were only moving into a 24 hour production system during the latter stages of the war. But the had been using slave labour 24-7 for quite some time by then, and quite a lot of it too. My grandfather was a forced labourer in Germany during the war, working in a factory that was considered a strategic target.
The German people did go on a rations system almost at the start of the war, in order to prove to the world that the 'iron sons of national socialism' were capable of enduring any hardship. One of the German mistakes was that, unlike the Brits and yanks, they hardly made any use of the women in their society. According to their philosophy women were mostly good for childbearing.
One of the reasons that German production was a lot lower than that of comparable nations, is because they are a bunch of perfectionists. The stuff they made was of incredible quality, but this seriously slowed down production (things like the Me262 jet fighter, and the Tiger tanks are a good example), so they just ended up being flooded by the allies.
Anyway, enough of this. Let's get back to ballin'!!!!!
Hey Buddha 3 the crack statement is just a figure of speech! Hope I didn't offend you! You point out some serious facts in your statement, of which I still don't agree! But hell we are all entitled to our own opinions right! If we all felt the exact same way about any given topic of discussion, this would be a god awful boring place to live! Don't you think? Glad you didn't e-mail me cause this makes some good reading on this post!
Remember enjoy life to the fullest! I do when my balls are touched by and Angel!
Remember enjoy life to the fullest! I do when my balls are touched by and Angel!
Okay mate, no offense taken about the crack thing. I just get a little hotheaded now and then. I believe you are American? (at least I think I read it somewhere on your teams website or something....) So I could have known that you don't mean it as serious as it might sound. After all, I played college football down in Georgia for a while, and my coach used to say the same thing anytime someone f*cked up.
I'm not out on some crusade to show the world that I am right and others are wrong. All I really meant to say is that if you are a military/terrorist organisation, than just stick to attacking the targets that are really targets. In my opinion civilians never should be considered targets. It's the government/organisation that you have a problem with, not Joe Public out in the street. That's all I'm saying, and that obviously means that I think that the people responsible for flying the planes into the WTC should be burned at the stake, drawn and quartered, made to slide naked over a cheese slicer, hung, and bitch-slapped. I would also think it would be wrong if the US would decide to start carpet bombing afghanistan (which I seriously doubt will happen, because I believe the US government kind of feels the same way, the precision attacks in the Gulf War, Serbia, and now Afghanistan support this).
I think the war that's going on right now is for the right cause, and I firmly believe that those civilian targets that were hit happened unintentionally.
My sympathy goes out to anybody that becomes a casualty in a war (some exceptions obviously, I wouldn't mind if Saddam gets a Paveway in his lap... ), but particularly to the civilians, because by and large (Nagasaki and Hiroshima excluding) their deaths don't bring about the end of a war any quicker. I hope you understand what I was trying to say now (I do admit that the two nukes on Japan were indeed the lesser of two evils, so calling that acts of terrorism was a bit off).
Just curious though, what are the things exactly that you didn't agree with? If it's the things that I stated as an opinion, then ofcourse feel free to disagree, after all it's just an opinion. But some of the stuff I posted are historical facts, backed up by archived material to be found in both the allied and the axis archives, so I hope that they are not disputed (for lack of a better word).
Somehow, I get the feeling that somewhere in the deep recesses of our brain, we both feel the same way (more or less), but it's just kinda hard to communicate on a board like this. This is one of those chats that should be happening around a pub table, where people can throw there arguments back and forth, so if you ever end up in Amsterdam.......
Damn, this post ended up longer than I intended!
I'm not out on some crusade to show the world that I am right and others are wrong. All I really meant to say is that if you are a military/terrorist organisation, than just stick to attacking the targets that are really targets. In my opinion civilians never should be considered targets. It's the government/organisation that you have a problem with, not Joe Public out in the street. That's all I'm saying, and that obviously means that I think that the people responsible for flying the planes into the WTC should be burned at the stake, drawn and quartered, made to slide naked over a cheese slicer, hung, and bitch-slapped.
I would also think it would be wrong if the US would decide to start carpet bombing afghanistan (which I seriously doubt will happen, because I believe the US government kind of feels the same way, the precision attacks in the Gulf War, Serbia, and now Afghanistan support this).I think the war that's going on right now is for the right cause, and I firmly believe that those civilian targets that were hit happened unintentionally.
My sympathy goes out to anybody that becomes a casualty in a war (some exceptions obviously, I wouldn't mind if Saddam gets a Paveway in his lap...
), but particularly to the civilians, because by and large (Nagasaki and Hiroshima excluding) their deaths don't bring about the end of a war any quicker. I hope you understand what I was trying to say now (I do admit that the two nukes on Japan were indeed the lesser of two evils, so calling that acts of terrorism was a bit off). Just curious though, what are the things exactly that you didn't agree with? If it's the things that I stated as an opinion, then ofcourse feel free to disagree, after all it's just an opinion. But some of the stuff I posted are historical facts, backed up by archived material to be found in both the allied and the axis archives, so I hope that they are not disputed (for lack of a better word).
Somehow, I get the feeling that somewhere in the deep recesses of our brain, we both feel the same way (more or less), but it's just kinda hard to communicate on a board like this. This is one of those chats that should be happening around a pub table, where people can throw there arguments back and forth, so if you ever end up in Amsterdam.......
Damn, this post ended up longer than I intended!
Well now you went and did it! You said for me to come to Amsterdam! Now that my fellow baller is an invitation that can't be refused! You finally said something we can agree on Beer, Pub , AMSTERDAM! Well not in those exact words, but I am there. J/K Maybe someday I will visit that fine city again I will look you up!
DISCUSSION
Ro0ster- It is good to see that you can conduct a good debate and stick to your points!!
Now you need to learn how to play paintball and then your life will be complete. You better play good at the diablo cup or I will have to cut your a$$!! J/K
Buddha- I am from Georgia!!!! What college did you play for??
Ro0ster- It is good to see that you can conduct a good debate and stick to your points!!
Now you need to learn how to play paintball and then your life will be complete. You better play good at the diablo cup or I will have to cut your a$$!!
J/KBuddha- I am from Georgia!!!!
What college did you play for??
Georgia Tech. I was a Yellow Jacket for a year. Played DT.
You guys ought to come over to this side of the Channel by the way. It's fun over here......
You guys ought to come over to this side of the Channel by the way. It's fun over here......
Kewl
We need to set something up so we can party. What PB team do you play for?
Let's hook it up!!
We need to set something up so we can party. What PB team do you play for?
Let's hook it up!!
Hey Buddha3 I have no problems coming over that way to play! Is the weather better over there during the winter? Maybe I can take the "Doghouse" full of my Team Mates and come over for some week-end fun!
Chip I will start looking for a new team now just so I don't have to start looking after the Diablo Tourney! LMAO
Oh Yeah I forgot just so you know the "DogHouse" is my 64 VW Bus! Just incase you were wondering!
Chip I will start looking for a new team now just so I don't have to start looking after the Diablo Tourney! LMAO
Oh Yeah I forgot just so you know the "DogHouse" is my 64 VW Bus! Just incase you were wondering!
Nah, I'm afraid we have two seasons here in Holland, rain is coming and rain is here.
Good luck at the Cup guys, sorry us fellas aren't coming over.
Hey, are you guys in Belgium the 11th? Cause if so, see you people there!
Good luck at the Cup guys, sorry us fellas aren't coming over.
Hey, are you guys in Belgium the 11th? Cause if so, see you people there!