IMHO, Dynasty needs to switch to the NXL.

[Robbo]

Repeat after me, Conflict of Interest

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Touchy today, aren't we? Geez, Pete, if you ain't a Dynasty apologist then it didn't apply to you.
My take was Bryan was using the "fresh example of the moment" that everyone interested is probably familiar with, and making a broader point. (If not, then I've given him too much credit.)
And while I'm sure he can manage to defend himself just fine if you and Duffy et al are gonna jump on him first thing odds of any sort'a discussion following is likely nil so I decided to help out.

Btw, I'm the one pulled the original post outta the It's done--2004 thread as it wasn't on point there at all but still potentially of some interest. Or so I thought.

Paul, ya know what I get tired of, Bullsh1t, I get tired of reading Dynasty did this, Dynasty did that and for the most part, it’s coming from people who hardly watch them.
I have played against them and seen them play many, many times, they are nowhere near the worst cheaters, nowhere frikkin near, I could name 20 pro teams worse than them.
No, their crime is somewhat different, they happen to be the world's best team and as such, some people just love to knock them coz they have little or no life of their own.
We see this phenomenon in every walk of life !!!!

Why is it soo easy for people like this Bryan fool to knock them and yet soo difficult to praise them.
No pro team is 100% clean, it ain't an animal that exists, so taking the moral high ground and trying to make them the bad guys when there is absolutely no substance to his claims is offensive to any decent minded thinker.

But apart from that Paul, all is cool

 

[Baca Loco]

I think y'all need to read the View in issue 173

Originally posted by Robbo
Paul, ya know what I get tired of, Bullsh1t, I get tired of reading Dynasty did this, Dynasty did that and for the most part, it’s coming from people who hardly watch them.
I have played against them and seen them play many, many times, they are nowhere near the worst cheaters, nowhere frikkin near, I could name 20 pro teams worse than them.
No, their crime is somewhat different, they happen to be the world's best team and as such, some people just love to knock them coz they have little or no life of their own.
We see this phenomenon in every walk of life !!!!

Why is it soo easy for people like this Bryan fool to knock them and yet soo difficult to praise them.
No pro team is 100% clean, it ain't an animal that exists, so taking the moral high ground and trying to make them the bad guys when there is absolutely no substance to his claims is offensive to any decent minded thinker.

1--But apart from that Paul, all is cool

Then let's leave the D named team out of the equation and see what we get's. Here we all are, in one place or another, talking about the prospects for PB exploding onto the world stage in a noticeable way what with the NXL's prospective deal involving DCP, the Gravity games gig and all manner of speculation and advocacy favoring some combined NPPL/Mil dealio with modified formats, world leagues, blah blah blah. Totally cool as far as it goes but somewhere down this yellow brick road there are hard calls gonna need to be made. And a significant aspect of those hard calls pertain to what Bryan is/was talkin' about--minus the D team.
We've had years of league organisers running the shows and running teams (or with vested interests in certain teams) and it's a recipe for trouble.
Elsewhere we've had threads discussing which side of the sport/entertainment divide PB may fall on and the only way to protect the sport side of the equation is to build in, from the get go, a transparent and independent process of accountability. It's plainly something that folks have been working on in one measure or another but so far only in fits and starts and there are plenty of examples from all the leagues that it ain't a done deal yet.
That's what I took from Bryan's posts--rightly or wrongly.

1--

 

[PaintballChannel]

Robbo:

Take away Dynasty for a moment, and read my last post referencing the NFL.

Dynasty was only used because Hendsch has/had interest in the team AND owns/owned the NPPL at the same time.

If you really want to get down to it, it's all about Hendsch being the sole owner of the NPPL with 100% control on the decision process on what happens to the league without any input from the players...He may take or ask for input, but that doesnt mean he has to use it. When it comes down to it, the teams have no vote whatsoever in the NPPL. What Chuck says goes.

And, as far as the DCP/PSP/NXL deal? I'm leary of that too. NEVER EVER trust Hollywood producers. As long as Braun doesnt sell the PSP or the NXL out for quick cash for a TV deal, then I'm ok with it. But, It'll be mostly wait and see on that one too.

I care about the sport and the future of the sport. I want to see it thrive. I want to see it on television. BUT, I dont want to see this done at the expense of the sport and the players just so someone can pad their wallet.

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by PaintballChannel
If you really want to get down to it, it's all about Hendsch being the sole owner of the NPPL with 100% control on the decision process on what happens to the league without any input from the players...He may take or ask for input, but that doesnt mean he has to use it. When it comes down to it, the teams have no vote whatsoever in the NPPL. What Chuck says goes.

You honestly think that? I would think that someone like Ged Green, or Bart Walkerdine would have something to say as well. It ain't an "all-Chuck" party...

 

[knobbs]

I think the ponit this thread has morphed into would be a hard one to argue against by anyone. I don't want to put words in anyone's mouths, but I think everyone here would agree that teams owned by series owners/promoters are not necessarily a good thing if for no other reason than it gives those naysayers fuel for thier arguments.

However, that's not what this was originally about. The original post had no notion of a generic beef with promoter owned teams. It said everything about Dynasty and very SPECIFICALLY about Dynasty. The original poster went through great pains to specify Dynasty. Never once was there any mention of "as well as any other promoter owned team." If it were, I doubt as many people would have had a beef with it. Instead, he specifically singles out Dynasty and not only states "I think it's a conflict of interest," but further soils the team's name by picking specific instances where they supposedly cheated and were protected by the NPPL (one of which being at the Mardi Gras tournament which is not even an NPPL event).

There was no mention of similar PSP or NXL teams, and nothing signifying that the message had a broader meaning. The first time this idea came up was in others posts and after the original poster had been chastised by others that they didn't appreciate the witch hunt. As everyone suggests, take Dynasty out of the original post...take any sentence that deals with anything other than specifically mentioning Dynasty or Chuck, and you get:

------------------------------------------
Now, here's the real beef in the situation:
The players perhaps? That's what the NPPL was originally created for anyway, wasn't it?
------------------------------------------

Not much of a post, is it?

So yeah, I think the original post was made only to bash Dynasty. Something that is all too common these days. When the original poster was called out, he jumped on a valid argument others brought up to save his own skin.

And to put my two cents in, yeah, you aren't going to get this kind of thing in the NFL and it's not the way paintball can do business if it wants to be a mainstream sport. Problem is, NFL is alot bigger than paintball is. We'll get there in time and changes are starting to happen. Paintball is at an akward spot right now.

Oh yeah, and this is why Chuck officially gave the reins of Dynasty to the team before the season started. Whether or not he still has unofficial ties to the team, at least he recognized the issue and addressed it publicly, unlike the other series.

 

[PaintballChannel]

You honestly think that? I would think that someone like Ged Green, or Bart Walkkerdine would have something to say as well. It ain't an "all-Chuck" party...

If you do a corporation lookup in California for the National Professional Paintball League, Chuck Hendsch is the ONLY person listed under that corporation, thus Chuck owns 100% of the NPPL. If that has changed, then it does not reflect within the California Division of Corporations.

 

[PaintballChannel]

GOOD GOD PEOPLE!

I'M NOT HERE TO BASH DYNASTY! THIS POST WAS NOT TO BASH DYNASTY! I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT DYNASTY! DYNASTY WAS ONLY USED AS AN EXAMPLE!!!!!!!

What I said for and or about Dynasty goes for every other League, Team, Promoter, etc, etc, etc. If you want, I'll go through and name all the other promoters that are associated with teams as well.

I only used Dynasty because:

1) Chuck Hendsch, the OWNER OF THE NPPL, had or has ties with Dynasty.

2) All I ever see on websites, forums, newsgroups, crop circles, tarot card readings is that players are complaing about how "Dynasty cheats and gets away with it".

Therefore, since Chuck has/have/had/do/does/did connections with Dynasty (He owned it, he was the Captain of...) and Chuck owns the NPPL as a player you would (or SHOULD) ask yourself "Does Dynasty win because Chuck owns the NPPL?" And, this goes for EVERY promoter and team associated with that promoter. Not just Chuck, not just Dynasty. EVERYBODY.

And, for example...IF the commissioner of the NFL owned, say, the Dallas Cowboys, and the refs were accused of not making calls against the Dallas Cowboys, and other teams kept saying that the Dallas Cowboys are cheating, and the Dallas Cowboys kept winning game after game, wouldnt YOU ask if there was some preference there since the Commissioner of the NFL also owned the Dallas Cowboys??

Does the current Commissioner of MLB own a baseball team? NO.
Does the Commisioner of the NBA own a basketball team? NO.

Should the owner of the NPPL own a team in the same league? NO.

THAT'S the point I was trying to get across.

THAT'S IT!

(now I'll probably get jumped on by the Dallas Cowboy fans)

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by PaintballChannel
GOOD GOD PEOPLE!

I'M NOT HERE TO BASH DYNASTY! THIS POST WAS NOT TO BASH DYNASTY! I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT DYNASTY! DYNASTY WAS ONLY USED AS AN EXAMPLE!!!!!!!

What I said for and or about Dynasty goes for every other League, Team, Promoter, etc, etc, etc. If you want, I'll go through and name all the other promoters that are associated with teams as well.

I only used Dynasty because:

1) Chuck Hendsch, the OWNER OF THE NPPL, had or has ties with Dynasty.

2) All I ever see on websites, forums, newsgroups, crop circles, tarot card readings is that players are complaing about how "Dynasty cheats and gets away with it".

Therefore, since Chuck has/have/had/do/does/did connections with Dynasty (He owned it, he was the Captain of...) and Chuck owns the NPPL as a player you would (or SHOULD) ask yourself "Does Dynasty win because Chuck owns the NPPL?" And, this goes for EVERY promoter and team associated with that promoter. Not just Chuck, not just Dynasty. EVERYBODY.

Does the current Commisioner of the NFL own an football team? Does the current Commissioner of MLB own a baseball team? Does the Commisioner of the NBA own a basketball team? NO.

Should the owner of the NPPL own a team in the same league? NO.

THAT'S the point I was trying to get across.

THAT'S IT!

I don't believe a frikkin word you say, you are a worm !!!
You used Dyansty's name time and time again and now you wanna try and back track.
You are the sorta low life this game could well do without.
You come on here spouting sh!t about Dynasty, then go into a phase of denial, then ask us to ignore the Dyansty name in your post so you can get yer ass off the hook....what sort of d!ck are u????
You are just another wannabee mug trying to make a name for yerslef on the back of people who not only have you no right to criticse but you don't even deserve the right to clean their cleats.
You are a sad, weak person !

 

[PaintballChannel]

You, Robbo, are one hard-headed person.

I dont care to make a name for myself. I CARE ABOUT THE ****ING SPORT.

I, as a media person, HAVE to ask the question....If someone owns a team in ANY sport AND owns the league that that team is on, is that team getting preferential treatmeant?. Anyone in ANY sport would ask the same question.

I could care less if it's ANY god damn team in ANY league. Ground Zero, the Ton Ton's, the Philly Americans, NXL, PSP, NEPL, YOU NAME IT. I'll ask that question to EVERY promoter out there. I've seen teams IN ALL LEAGUES get preferential treatment. I've seen ref's IN ALL LEAGUES say that a player wasn't hit when he obviously was. I've even seen refs IN ALL LEAGUES WIPE obvious hits and then saying the player is clean. I've SEEN promoters fix tournaments IN ALL LEAGUES.

I would ask Chuck Hendsch that question, I would ask Jerry Braun that question, I would ask ANY PROMOTER OR LEAGUE OWNER in ANY SPORT that question.

You, sir, ESPECIALLY BEING IN PAINTBALL MEDIA, should be asking the same question.

BTW, this will be my last post on this matter. Feel free to close this thread.

 

[Furby]

Fascinating turn of events here. I'd have never thought that two of the most respectable guys in the industry would go at it like this. Nor did I expect a Raehl-bash job on Bryan to be responded to as politely as it had.

Only real reason I'm responding is to defend my friend and business partner in what's obviously turned into an attempt to discredit somenone with a question, and a good one at that.

For the sake of debate I'll stipulate that Dynasty is the best team in the world. I'll also stipulate that Hendsch has severed all ties with Dynasty, mainly because I vaguely remember that announcement being made, and as I haven't met Mr. Hendsch or attended one of Mr. Hendsch's events yet (to be remedied later this year). However, word has it that Mr. Hendsch's events are top notch, without alot of the nonsense that players have had to tolerate in the past, and as an added bonus the PSP have been forced to compete at this level set by Hendsch, which in my opinion is healthy for the sport itself. For that, Hendsch gets my respect. That and the typical affection for the underdog us Americans have.

However, there is a possible perception that Mr. Hendsch is taking care of Dynasty. Right or wrong, true or not, it's a perception. And unfortunately, perception is reality to alot of people. And right or wrong, true or not, since Dynasty is the best team in the world, they're going to be scrutinized quite a bit closer than say Nexus, Ton Ton, et. al. Given the current situation regarding Dynasty playing NPPL Super 7, which is
legally owned by Mr. Hendsch, who happens to be the former owner of said team and their captain, it does beg the question: Are they being treated differently?

My point is, at some point paintball as a sport will have to be subject to the same sort of media scrutiny that other sports endure. Someone will have to ask the sorts of questions that Mr. Gilchrist is asking, and attacking him personally for asking doesn't answer the basic question being asked or further the cause of moving the sport from its current niche placement in the minds of many nor does it dispel what's likely a bad perception.

Having said all that, and not that it matters, I don't personally think that Hendsch is either arrogant or stupid enough to think he could get away with playing dirty with his league in order to advance the fortunes of a team he used to formally associate with. I've heard both good and bad about Mr. Hendsch, but nobody is saying he's stupid. However, given how things look, I think it's fair to ask the question. Bryan doesn't pay alot of attention to the drama and soap opera that goes on within the leagues, so don't think he's picking a side, or hating on Dynasty. They're just a very obvious and easy example to ask a basic question about. If you know another league that has the former captain and former owner of the top team within that league, point 'em out and we'll ask the same questions to them! As much as I hate to say it, despite the much-lauded 11 mentions regarding Dynasty this has little to do with them. Yes, they're the best team in the world right now, that's why they were mentioned. When it's the Paintballchannel.com team that's the best in the world, then we'll expect the same sort of scrutiny from the media and playing public that Dynasty is currently subject to. Responsible media would have asked this question long ago (and probably have, but nobody likes to answer questions like these) and have gotten an answer, reported it, and moved on to the next story. Lord knows there are plenty of stories out there to be reported on. Why it took this long, and why the owner of a paintball website is asking the question rather than the print media guys (whom I would think would have a larger audience than us internet guys) is a more relevant, and possibly interesting question.