Gun Control politics on both sides of the pond

[Hotpoint]

Originally posted by Mark/Static
Hey all US/UK philosophical and political differences aside; Airguns have become a target for regulation in the wake of a murder in which airguns were not used. Can we agree that this (as with the .22 target shooters prior) was an overreaction?

To an extent yes but there has also been much discussion relating to Airguns for some time in the UK as a backdrop to this so it's not come completely out of the blue

Originally posted by Mark/Static

Uh, no not really. Quite the opposite. But hey, do what you think is best.

Methinks the other Mark meant "Representative Democracy" on the US or European model where we voluntarily surrender our power to an elected body

Democracy does not necessarily equate to personal freedom btw. Several democratic states have practiced slavery back to the days of Ancient Athens and we can find many quite regimes today that have free and fair elections but are quite authoritarian

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Mark
Govermental control is required, that is a fundamental point of a democracy (regardless of the so called people power...(the vote)) but to trust a politician....not a good idea, human they may be but power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly. they are interested in them selves first and the "people" second.

From the mouth of a Brit! Btw, I'm not taking a shot at you, Mark or you, HP--but Mark has, of his own volition, hit the crux of the matter writ large.
Here you guys are talking about not giving politicians 'ammo' (pun intended) to use to further themselves and harm pball whilst at the same time arguing the merits of playin' the game by the other guy's rules. My question is at what point do you realize playin' by their rules you ain't ever gonna win, only delay the result?
Somewhere there must be a line that if crossed takes you beyond the realm of a free people?

 

[Hotpoint]

Originally posted by Baca Loco

Somewhere there must be a line that if crossed takes you beyond the realm of a free people?

Well personally I'd take to the barricades if I found myself with a Government which actually got less votes than the party that "lost" the election...

... but apparently that's considered okay over where you are



More to the point lads if you want to start a new SYB Thread discussing Firearms and Politics go ahead and I'll post there but can we have this thread returned to UK Airguns only please?

 

[Mark/Static]

Originally posted by Mark
your country has had how many schools shot up? and no reaction from the state legistar (sp?) or the goverment....but then I guess I am re-opening your (flawed in my view) constitution.

.
There was a reaction, Brady II was proposed, and defeated. As with airguns in the UK it proposed legislation that would have done nothing to prevent Columbine. But would have denied second amendment rights to citizens, without benefit of due process. That's just on the national level.
On the state level it varies. New Jersey & New York (curious that they're named after cities in the UK ) passed further gun legislation that will have no effect on school shootings.

Originally posted by Mark
The quote regarding govermental control is accurate because without goverment you have anarchy...how the goverment got to be in power via "your" vote is a side issue, what they do once they are in power is the problem.

But it's hardly the fundamental definition of democracy. Maybe yours, but not ours.

Originally posted by Hotpoint
To an extent yes but there has also been much discussion relating to Airguns for some time in the UK as a backdrop to this so it's not come completely out of the blue

Sure, there is talk of all kinds, but it's the overreaction that's key. There's talk about legalizing drugs in the US, but that doesn't mean it'll ever happen, even in the wake of a Cheech & Chong reunion.

 

[TJ Lambini]

And so they should do, given that that's a HUGE infringement of personal liberties in itself.

 

[JoseDominguez]

And anyway, if you don't agree with your government, stockpile legal guns and ammo and have a siege. Always works.

Can we stop this now? the thread almost got back to UK gun control and it's effects on paintball, for about one and a half posts, nice try Bully and Mark.

The airgun thing is worrying, they have been used in a lot of maimings (particularly random accidental blindings) and one death I know of, seems like most of the users who do this are young and too stupid to realise how lethal they are, the "it's just an airgun" mentality rather than deliberate assault. As far as I can see, we are more likely to get lumped into that ban than anything directly fire-arm related.
Of course, due to our wonderfully over-reactive press it's a lot easier to justify why you are carrying a marker than an airgun e.g. "tournament, rec-day, practice" rather than "breaking windows, killing cats and blinding paper-boys", but that's just until they find some horror stories about us too. We need to distance ourselves from this quickly.

 

[TJ Lambini]

Ever hear of Field Target Shooting

It's a sporting airgun discipline which is really popular in tha UK - in fact you guys tend to win tha World Championships at it with alraming regularity. The UK also makes many of tha world's premiers airguns....so what you saying is it's alright to sell someone else's sport - and jobs - down the river as long as we're all right Jack?

What you're saying about airguns is EXACTLY what Field Target shooters say about Paintball.

United people stand, divided they fall.

 

[JoseDominguez]

No, actually I was asking what they were legitimately used for, as the only thing they get used for around here is vandalism and assault. At what point did I mention I supported a ban on airguns? As you seem to imply that I did.
I just pointed out that we need to show that our sport is different in preparation for the inevitable controls that our government will impose. In addition, air-gun crime is rife in my area, the death I mentioned was local and our papers feature attacks regularly.

 

[TJ Lambini]

Ahem

You lil liar!

Read your post airgun dude, cos your tone is very much 'airguns are not sporting tools, they are used by thugs'....your last paragraph reads like something straight outta a Brit tabloid.

 

[TJ Lambini]

OK

Here's your Sun post done on our side of tha Atlantic by the Arkensas Herald...

The Paintball thing is worrying, they have been used in a lot of maimings (particularly random blindings) and one death I know of, seems like most of the users who do this are young and too stupid to realise how lethal they are, the "it's just an paintgun" mentality. Of course, it's a lot easier to justify why you are carrying an airgun than a paintgun e.g. "hunting, field target shooting, pest control" rather than "breaking windows, shooting roadsign and militia training". We really need to distance ourselves from them.


See where I'm going with this?