Flyin to America?

[Mark790.06]

Originally posted by Orange Peel
Sounds about right to me- we have to pay for them to feel safe.

I totally agree. All that tax payer money the US spent to station our troops in Germany during the cold war so Europeans can feel safer was unfair for Americans as well. Then again the heart-felt gratitude we now receive from you all makes it all worthwhile.

Originally posted by gyroscope
The funny thing is all these airline security measures are largely unnecessary, now. Since the thing that made us go nuts, every American adult has deputized himself to act in the interest of airline sentry. I pity anyone who tries to hijack an airplane in this country ever again.

True, it would be a bit tough to finger print passengers after their airliner was flown into a building or nuclear power plant. Perhaps it's for those who want to enter the belly of the infidels first before embarking on their campaign of terror?

Originally posted by gyroscope
It seems like a lot of America is happy under a forceful ruler who doesn't tolerate dissent.

As disproven by this very sentence. But if we never hear from you again we'll know I was wrong.

 

[duffistuta]

So you don't feel the new measures are just a tad draconian or paranoid, Mark?

 

[duffistuta]

As an aside, Israeli jets have just attacked Lebanon.

Oh dear.

 

[TOOLE]

well mate, where have I seen that picture that you are using as your avatar before? Oh yes, a site completely opposed to all things george bush and generally against the current state of the U.S government, in fact they have an anti bush election campaign entitled ' not the chimp 04' - reffering to bush as the chimp.

Originally posted by Mark790.06
I totally agree. All that tax payer money the US spent to station our troops in Germany during the cold war so Europeans can feel safer was unfair for Americans as well. Then again the heart-felt gratitude we now receive from you all makes it all worthwhile.

What, you mean the money that america spent because they were paranoid of russia and communism? That wasn't the only money America spent on stopping communism, and all of it was spent in order to secure America, it was just a byproduct that it happened to be in america's best interests that europe didn't fall, as it owed america millions of dollars + stopped their biggest enemy.

Originally posted by Mark790.06

True, it would be a bit tough to finger print passengers after their airliner was flown into a building or nuclear power plant. Perhaps it's for those who want to enter the belly of the infidels first before embarking on their campaign of terror?

This is what we call paranioa. ONE terrorist act, and america completely over reacts. America has invaded TWO countries because of this, causing major problems for both. Afganistan has a token goverment that are puppets to the US anyway, and most of the country is run by warlords. Afganistan is now one of the biggest drug producers in the world, and the biggest as far as herion and other opiates are concerned. What was this in aid of? destroying a terrorist group, the majority of whom have just run off and joined other terrorists, including Mr. Bin Laden.

The current 'War on Terror' is just something put forth by the bush administration in order to maintain power. Bush is going to have a hard time in his eklections this year, but if more attention was paid to him as a president than a warleader inside america, he would have already lost it.

 

[Bex]

I thought it was only if your passport ran out before october you had to pay?

 

[Mark790.06]

Originally posted by duffistuta
So you don't feel the new measures are just a tad draconian or paranoid, Mark?

You're referring to the finger printing? Honesty I feel it won't do much of anything by themselves. It's not as if there's much of a terrorist fingerprint database to compare them with. But you're already showing them your passport with your name and address in it, and letting them rummage through your belongings. What sinister things could they do with your finger prints that they couldn't do already?

Originally posted by TOOLE
well mate, where have I seen that picture that you are using as your avatar before? Oh yes, a site completely opposed to all things george bush and generally against the current state of the U.S government, in fact they have an anti bush election campaign entitled ' not the chimp 04' - reffering to bush as the chimp.

Well that just cannot be possible if what gyroscope says is true about our forceful ruler not tolerating dissent. GWB's secret police must be hot on their trails as we speak.

Originally posted by TOOLE
What, you mean the money that america spent because they were paranoid of russia and communism? That wasn't the only money America spent on stopping communism, and all of it was spent in order to secure America, it was just a byproduct that it happened to be in america's best interests that europe didn't fall, as it owed america millions of dollars + stopped their biggest enemy.

More like 100's of billions when taking into account interest and inflation, but lets forget about the fact that we absolved that debt 3 decades ago.
The occupations of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Poland, East Germany, Romania, as well as the massing of 60 tank divisions there, the cutting off of Berlin, the invasions of South Korea, South Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan, and the establishment of NATO were all a by-product of the USA's paranoia? Interesting.

Originally posted by TOOLE
ONE terrorist act, and america completely over reacts.

Some of you never cease to amaze me.

Originally posted by TOOLE
America has invaded TWO countries because of this, causing major problems for both.

Well I'm sorry if the uncovering of mass graves, the closing of the torture chambers, and the cessation of clitoris removal caused major problems in those 2 countries.

Originally posted by TOOLE
Afganistan is now one of the biggest drug producers in the world, and the biggest as far as herion and other opiates are concerned.

Most of which is sold in Europe.

Originally posted by TOOLE
The current 'War on Terror' is just something put forth by the bush administration in order to maintain power. Bush is going to have a hard time in his eklections this year, but if more attention was paid to him as a president than a warleader inside america, he would have already lost it.

How little you understand us.

 

[knobbs]

Mark790.06, I wish I could put these things into words as well as you do.

I agree 100%.

 

[TOOLE]

Originally posted by Mark790.06
Well that just cannot be possible if what gyroscope says is true about our forceful ruler not tolerating dissent. GWB's secret police must be hot on their trails as we speak.

i didn't argue wth that

Originally posted by Mark790.06
More like 100's of billions when taking into account interest and inflation, but lets forget about the fact that we absolved that debt 3 decades ago. .

only in return for absolving the what the US owed eveyone inside europe. America still owes what, $5 Trillion to the world? Bush still spends this money like water, only the dollar's worldwide acceptance has prevented the US economy from dying

Originally posted by Mark790.06
The occupations of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Poland, East Germany, Romania, as well as the massing of 60 tank divisions there, the cutting off of Berlin, the invasions of South Korea, South Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan, and the establishment of NATO were all a by-product of the USA's paranoia? Interesting..

These wars were ALL in an effort to keep the world capitalist, not to protect the countries, the US just didn't want it's citizens to see that communism may have worked, and so yes, they were a result of paranioa.

NATO is now, at best, an organisation that mops up after the US's and other warlike nations' actions, handing out aid. NATO is powerless against america, and just poses sanctions on it's economic rivals, and so america just ignore what it has to say.

Originally posted by Mark790.06
Some of you never cease to amaze me.

What? suddenly i doubt the purityof America's actions? Wake up and smell the coffee mate, the world isn't as nice and uncorrupt as you have been tricked into seeing it as. You'll find that the primary cause for most current wars are religeon (in the case of some eastern countries) and economic/political reasons, and america is engaging in war for the latter reasons.

Well I'm sorry if the uncovering of mass graves, the closing of the torture chambers, and the cessation of clitoris removal caused major problems in those 2 countries. .[/B]

Yup, and the creation of new mass graves of innocent people in order for america to gain access to an unrestricted flow of oil. These are, once again, just conveniant byproducts of America's actions & are used as an excuse.

Most of which is sold in Europe. .[/B]

and your point is??

How little you understand us. [/B]

 

[IL=Tim the Yank]

Originally posted by Mark790.06
You're referring to the finger printing? Honesty I feel it won't do much of anything by themselves. It's not as if there's much of a terrorist fingerprint database to compare them with.

Actually, the US has a database of fingerprints from materials recovered from Al Qaeda training camps and caves in Afghanistan that is used to screen passengers coming to the US. And yes, matches have been made. So without the war in Afghanistan and w/o the fingerprint requirement those Al Qaeda-trained terrorists would be roaming the US. Not saying this def avoided a terrorist attack but the fact is those guys are now being questioned in Gitmo rather than wandering around the States recconoitering targets.

As much as you'd like to think the security requirements were made to inconvenience you, they were made to keep out trained terrorists that take advantage of UK immigration laws. Finsbury Park Mosque was used by Al Qaeda to recruit British passport holders. There are others. Remember Richard Reid, the UK passport holder that tried to blow up a plane w/ a shoe bomb on its way to the States. Don't forget Pan Am 103 too. Interrogations of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and intercepted "chatter" among known terrorists has repeatedly mentioned specific threat information about flights leaving from Heathrow.

We weren't worried about the friendly Kenyans and Tanzanians either but AQ blew up our embassies there because they were considered relatively easy targets. Increasing security in one small area isn't good enough anymore, because the terrorists have the means, methods and resources to adapt.

Whether you like George W. or Tony Blair or not, the world is a different place now and precautions need to be taken. Sorry if it makes it a little more inconvenient for you to go play paintball but I think lives are more important in the big scheme of things. We are all in this together.

BTW, The British government is tightening their requirements too. All US citizens living in the UK that aren't active duty military now must get visas prior to travelling overseas and those extending their stay past their original visa have to pay 250 quid for a new one. I'd be surprised if tighter restrictions aren't placed on short term travellers too.

 

[skidder]

American Patriot Act

This is some funny shiz, Tha American patriot Act, allows the governmant to at any time and to anyone, remove their cival liberties and human rights, or all your beloved constitutional rights except for the right to have guns (always a stickin point) and treat you as a combatant (soldier) with out reason or resolve. Real bad if someone has it in for you, they could plant your fingerprints at the scene of a crime, how? because they already have them on record cool! (wait that's far too ridculous isnt it?)

Im far more likely to get run over, shot with a gun (dont have in UK legally) by my own parents, crash in a plane with terrorists on it before they had chance to terrorize due to faulty mechanics then I am or anyone to be killed by a terrorist. Perspective 101 thats life.