Empress in the News

[Baca Loco]

Met a pieman lately?

Originally posted by manike
1--Absolutely if you buy my stuff for them to use.

2--And why is it pissing money away?

3--Heck even if gets someone to start threads on a board discussing them and the products they are using it's all helping in publicity right? It's just real tough to measure the value of that.

Just wondering, since LA PSP, who's got more coverage on the boards and in the press. Detroit Strange or Empress?

Who's had more pictures posted of them since that event?

Who's done more for their sponsors?

At least Empress helped take down the trailer...

1--Now you're just being silly, Simon.
2--Your claim was any reason was as valid as any other and that's simply nonsensical. You can't claim that Empress is anything other than a novelty act. I have no doubts the girls are dedicated and intent on being the best ballers they can be but at best the notion of massive sponsorship for female teams to date has been predicated on faulty logic. Guys like girls, Pballing guys will like pballin' girls=sales. It simply doesn't compute.
3--Demonstrate for me in any quantifiable way that sponsoring Empress has sold one bit o' kit. You can't. I can however easily demonstrate that Strange sells product.

 

[Baca Loco]

Re: Someone's feeling rightfully defensive

Originally posted by manike
1--I'm curious as to what reasons are different?

Or is it just perceived that they don't have the same links and it must be they are getting sponsorship because they are girls?

2--If you look and know who the members of the team are, you would see a lot of links to the industry besides the fact they are girls that get them part of their sponsorship.

3--Are we as 'macho' paintballers never going to take a girls team seriously just because they are girls?

4--Are we always going to think that's the only reason they get sponsorship and only see value if they have pretty faces?

If so I think maybe 'we' have issues to deal with.

5--Funniest quote of LA PSP was one of the guys complaining that Josie over shot him on a run through (that'll teach him to spin) and the ref said 'shut up or take up bowling'.

6--Anybody can play and be part of paintball. We shouldn't descriminate or write people off just because of one factor.

I know some big fat dudes that can ball. I know some pretty girls that can ball. I also know some big fat dudes that have no skills and I know some pretty girls that, well I wouldn't kick them out of... an event... ( ) but I wouldn't ask them to play on the same field... well I would... but late after everyone else has left... and err. I'll move on now.

1--Okay, if you insist they are only getting their sponsorships cus of who they know. Is that really a better reason?
2--whatever, the point stands that that's a damn poor reason. I don't fault them for taking the sponsorships, I'm merely questioning the rationale behind it.
3--soon as they are competitive they will be taken seriously. Until then why should they be treated any differently? Oh wait, they're girls!
4--if by "we" you mean the people sponsoring them perhaps we should demand a poster of the ungainly, overweight less attractive members of the team. I'm sure that'll go over big.
5--no doubt she was using one of those "legal" Timmys everyone so loves.
6--How sensitive New Age male of you, Simon. It's hardly discrimination though to suggest sponsorship dollars are being spent ill-advisedly whether it's on girl teams, rock stars or industry pals.

 

[manike]

Re: Re: Someone's feeling rightfully defensive

Originally posted by Baca Loco
3--soon as they are competitive they will be taken seriously. Until then why should they be treated any differently? Oh wait, they're girls!

Well said. They shouldn't be treated any differently. But then you are the one treating them differently because they are girls...

Hypocrisy abounds.


What is so hard to understand that sponsorship dollars goes to what helps the sponsors?

 

[Duncster]

flipside...

Sorry if I'm interfering, or indeed totally off track here - and I know it doesn't sound overly macho, but here's my take on the whole female team thing...

Generally there are far fewer good female paintballers than their male counterparts. Why? Simple - it's pretty much the same reason that American teams kick the shizzle out of Euro teams... There are less girl-ballers than boy-ballers (that didn't read right, but you know what I mean...)

One thing I love about paintball in general is that it is one of the only true team sports in which both sexes can (or could) compete on an even footing.

By giving all female teams, and even the occasional individual (Bea Youngs?), big time sponsorship, you are putting girl-ballers in the limelight, and therefore hopefully encouraging more females into the sport. The more girls playing paintball, the higher the number of good female ballers who will come out of the woodwork.

And to answer why sponsors go for the all girl teams? - are they just being nice? or are they hoping that any new girl-ballers idolize these teams and start buying the same kit that they use?

And a good looking lady in paintball gear is a bit yummy...

D.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by manike
Well said. They shouldn't be treated any differently. But then you are the one treating them differently because they are girls...

Hypocrisy abounds.


What is so hard to understand that sponsorship dollars goes to what helps the sponsors?

Are you just being willfully stupid or are you so incensed I see little to no value in your own sponsorships you're trying, unsuccessfully, to twist my words? (Or maybe it was the crack about Timmys)

Girl teams shouldn't be treated any differently than any other team. Yet, the simple fact is--they are treated differently--and it isn't by me or the players, it is by the sponsors. I'm not the one being hypocritical. They are and you are.

And as to what helps sponsors I specifically invited you to demonstrate in any way, shape or form that sponsoring girl teams or friends or industry peeps actually "helps" sponsors. You have offered nothing yet dogmatically clung to the desperate notion that because I question the value of such sponsorships I'm the one with the problem.

Now that's comedy.


Dunc--you're certainly welcome to join in and you make the standard argument for such sponsorships but where are the results? With a million new players a year (or thereabouts) have we seen a significant increase in female players? If so does it have anything to do with female teams? Does anybody buy stuff cus some well-publicized girl teams use it?

I'm afraid you haven't offered an answer--just the same old speculation--but you have given the unspoken answer as well, "And a good looking lady in paintball gear is a bit yummy..." which begs the question, "Does the girl in gear need to be a player to attract your interest or simply attractive?"

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Are you just being willfully stupid or are you so incensed I see little to no value in your own sponsorships you're trying, unsuccessfully, to twist my words? (Or maybe it was the crack about Timmys)

Girl teams shouldn't be treated any differently than any other team. Yet, the simple fact is--they are treated differently--and it isn't by me or the players, it is by the sponsors. I'm not the one being hypocritical. They are and you are.

And as to what helps sponsors I specifically invited you to demonstrate in any way, shape or form that sponsoring girl teams or friends or industry peeps actually "helps" sponsors. You have offered nothing yet dogmatically clung to the desperate notion that because I question the value of such sponsorships I'm the one with the problem.

Now that's comedy.


Dunc--you're certainly welcome to join in and you make the standard argument for such sponsorships but where are the results? With a million new players a year (or thereabouts) have we seen a significant increase in female players? If so does it have anything to do with female teams? Does anybody buy stuff cus some well-publicized girl teams use it?

I'm afraid you haven't offered an answer--just the same old speculation--but you have given the unspoken answer as well, "And a good looking lady in paintball gear is a bit yummy..." which begs the question, "Does the girl in gear need to be a player to attract your interest or simply attractive?"

LMFAO.

Would YOU have started this thread if they weren't an all girls team? I'm looking forward to next week when you pick a team from NPPL Div 3 to question their sponsorship and playing abilities.

That's you singling out an all girls team to treat them differently.

Why?

I'm also interested in your proof that Strange sells equipment that wouldn't have been sold anyway?

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
And as to what helps sponsors I specifically invited you to demonstrate in any way, shape or form that sponsoring girl teams or friends or industry peeps actually "helps" sponsors. You have offered nothing yet dogmatically clung to the desperate notion that because I question the value of such sponsorships I'm the one with the problem.

Do you really have your head so far into the clouds because your son plays on one of maybe the 1% of teams that don't get sponsorship the same way as the majority does? That you really don't know how the sponsorship system works in most cases?

Almost ALL sponsorships are to people in the industry.

Most sponsorships are really just incentives to buy. If you are in the industry and buy from a company then you get back a percentage of points in 'sponsorship' to use as you please.

This is why most 'sponsored' teams are related to stores and fields etc. This is how most sponsored teams get their sponsorship. Most don't get it just in relationship to their performances although there are related win bonus schemes.

Sarah owns a field and uses her sponsorship points to support her team.

Much like all other sponsors.

I'm suprised you didn't see the relationship?

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by manike
Most sponsorships are really just incentives to buy. If you are in the industry and buy from a company then you get back a percentage of points in 'sponsorship' to use as you please.

This is why most 'sponsored' teams are related to stores and fields etc. This is how most sponsored teams get their sponsorship. Most don't get it just in relationship to their performances although there are related win bonus schemes.

Is a reciprocal business relationship really sponsorship as was being discussed before? Or are you simply continuing to dodge the original question posed? So far you've only responded selectively and even then tried to change the subject twice.
And yes, I like the condescension. It becomes you.

And as to the question would I have started this thread without Empress the answer is sure, let's pick on the Femmes instead. Or, since you're outraged on behalf of the girls, plug in Stoned Assassins for Empress and most of the same applies. However what is unique to the girl teams is the "thinking" behind the levels of support they receive.

 

[Gyroscope]

Sponsorship and paintball are two differnt games. One makes the other easier, but sponsorship is a marketing game at best, a game of personal politics at worst. Paintball is eaier if you are good at the sponsorship game, but being good at paintball is just one way to be good at the sponsorship game.

It is also easier to be good at the paintball game if you are good at the "independently wealthy" game. Sponsorship is a way to get goods and services.

Female teams will have an avenue open to them that male ballers won't until there is more gender equity in paintball (demographically). Whether or not male ballers buy stuff because a female baller uses the gear is open to question, certainly. But then, whether or not a skilled and winning team get more sales for their sponsors is questionable in some instances, too. A lot of us think of the (relative) success of Bad Company and Tippman Effect as being in spite of the gear, not because of it. Did Strange do so well in the past because of the Nuvis-1? Why didn't they get better (or worse) because of the JT goggles? They get attention and media coverage, in the case of Strange, for being a winning team. If they got attention because they all played competitive paintball in addition to being famous musicians, they would still get the exposure the sponsors crave. Exposure is what it comes down to. Smart Parts even capitalizes on the negative press they sometimes get with ads that mock the controversy surrounding their patent litgations. Any press is good press, unless the press says stuff like " you could be seriously injured as a result of using this stuff."

In sponsorship, it is useful to stand out, in any way you can. A minority win often, a minority are women, a minority are famous musicians. That is why some people seem to have nine lives, no matter what mess they get themselves into, they will find a sponsorship somewhere.

 

[Duncster]

Originally posted by Baca Loco

Dunc--you're certainly welcome to join in and you make the standard argument for such sponsorships but where are the results? With a million new players a year (or thereabouts) have we seen a significant increase in female players? If so does it have anything to do with female teams? Does anybody buy stuff cus some well-publicized girl teams use it?

It's ALL speculation - all of this is speculation. I don't have access to the statistics necessary to backup any argument, and I doubt anyone else does. However, I can say this: There is a definite increase in the number of female paintballers playing today, compared with, say, 5-6 years ago (ie, when I started playing tournaments), wether these are the odd female baller in with an otherwise all male line-up, or an entire female team. You only need to go to any of the domestic tourneys in the UK to see this.

Whilst I agree that the growth is still relatively small in comparrison with the levels of male players playing, I think that this is always going to be the case. But they will increase, and the ratio of male baller to female baller by growth will narrow over time (until the sport destroys itself... but that's another subject...)

As for why sponsors go for female teams? I think Gyroscope has probably hit the nail on the head.

If this is about why we should be angry at sponsors for sponsoring people who can't play for toffee - How many REALLY good teams out there (ie, the type of team who are acutally WORTHY of sponsorship) haven't got good sponsorship? If your team sucks, then you don't deserve the sponsorship any more than the next all female team.

D.