Campaign......the verdict?

[Robbo]

Nick, at this point I gotta butt out because I could have pretty much predicted you would disagree and so this is where I leave the debate, as far as I am concerned my explanation and analysis are reasonable and makes sense.

If you can't agree on this, then see ya later, I really can't be arsed any more to spoon feed you or enter into a debate that lasts any longer than it has done.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Nick, at this point I gotta butt out because I could have pretty much predicted you would disagree and so this is where I leave the debate, as far as I am concerned my explanation and analysis are reasonable and makes sense.

If you can't agree on this, then see ya later, I really can't be arsed any more to spoon feed you or enter into a debate that lasts any longer than it has done.

That's fine with me

It will never seize to amaze me how you see an intellectual difference as a personal affront - you do it all the time Pete.... as soon as someone is in disagreement with you, you retort to the veiled personal insults....... I don't understand why it has to be that way with you?

It's not like you or I or anyone else debating on this page, is going to make any changes happen here and now - it's just harmless banter on an online forum..... so why take it so personally?

Nick

 

[Lovetone]

Well, I will agree to differ on this point and the only way we are gonna find out for sure is to have our top 5 teams play against their top 5 (or whatever and not including Joy) and I would bet my house we would get slaughtered but that ain't gonna happen and so we are just left with opinions..nothing more.

Didnt that already happen recently? And yeah ,the euro teams got had.

 

[Robbo]

That's fine with me

It will never seize to amaze me how you see an intellectual difference as a personal affront - you do it all the time Pete.... as soon as someone is in disagreement with you, you retort to the veiled personal insults....... I don't understand why it has to be that way with you?

It's not like you or I or anyone else debating on this page, is going to make any changes happen here and now - it's just harmless banter on an online forum..... so why take it so personally?

Nick

It's not an affront Nick, it's exasperation, it seems you allow the almost pathological need to be right all the time get in the way of common sense.

Now I am fully aware I am of the same ilk but I have had several occasions with you where the truth is standing in front of you, smashing you in the face and yet you still maintain a denial...I just can't be asked to deal with that intransigence any more, that's all Nick, nothing more.

As I have said a few times before, I can state 2+2 = 4 just soo many times and when the other person still maintains it's 5, i just give up ....and believe me, the point i am making is as simple as that sum.

As for taking it personally, maybes I do yes, because it's me you are answering to in your rebuttal and if you can't be arsed to uphold common sense and rational thought lines then I can't be bothered to continue....
I just feel you are taking me for some sort of mug if you think I am gonna entertain your reply as a serious rebuttal.

 

[Echowitch]

It's not an affront Nick, it's exasperation, it seems you allow the almost pathological need to be right all the time get in the way of common sense.

Now I am fully aware I am of the same ilk but I have had several occasions with you where the truth is standing in front of you, smashing you in the face and yet you still maintain a denial...I just can't be asked to deal with that intransigence any more, that's all Nick, nothing more.

As I have said a few times before, I can state 2+2 = 4 just soo many times and when the other person still maintains it's 5, i just give up ....and believe me, the point i am making is as simple as that sum.

As for taking it personally, maybes I do yes, because it's me you are answering to in your rebuttal and if you can't be arsed to uphold common sense and rational thought lines then I can't be bothered to continue....
I just feel you are taking me for some sort of mug if you think I am gonna entertain your reply as a serious rebuttal.

Different tack then perhaps gents ?

How do we bring European teams up to the same level as the American's ? More practice means more cost but definitely creates improvement, (I know I'm a real noob and I've trained against a London Tiger and literally got my arse shot to pieces.....both cheeks,) we have no true single national league in the UK like the NPPL but three separate leagues, (NSPL, Masters, Northern,) which seem to be against working together.

Do we need a single league to allow us a greater range of competition ? More European involvement ? More support from sponsers to offset increased costs ?

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

It's not an affront Nick, it's exasperation, it seems you allow the almost pathological need to be right all the time get in the way of common sense.

Now I am fully aware I am of the same ilk but I have had several occasions with you where the truth is standing in front of you, smashing you in the face and yet you still maintain a denial...I just can't be asked to deal with that intransigence any more, that's all Nick, nothing more.

As I have said a few times before, I can state 2+2 = 4 just soo many times and when the other person still maintains it's 5, i just give up ....and believe me, the point i am making is as simple as that sum.

As for taking it personally, maybes I do yes, because it's me you are answering to in your rebuttal and if you can't be arsed to uphold common sense and rational thought lines then I can't be bothered to continue....
I just feel you are taking me for some sort of mug if you think I am gonna entertain your reply as a serious rebuttal.

But Pete - with your intellect, you can obviously see that from my perspective YOU are maintaining that 2+2 is 5 - and therein lies the rub - which then works both ways

I do certainly not come on here to intentionally provoke or wind you or anyone else up (perhaps with exception of that Mikey guy).... what I write I absolutely mean.

Anyway - would be interesting to learn from some of the guys actually PLAYING pro these days - if they think the gap has closed or widened.... because at this point in time, you and me are just spectators to that kind of paintball

Nick

Nick

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Different tack then perhaps gents ?

How do we bring European teams up to the same level as the American's ? More practice means more cost but definitely creates improvement, (I know I'm a real noob and I've trained against a London Tiger and literally got my arse shot to pieces.....both cheeks,) we have no true single national league in the UK like the NPPL but three separate leagues, (NSPL, Masters, Northern,) which seem to be against working together.

Do we need a single league to allow us a greater range of competition ? More European involvement ? More support from sponsers to offset increased costs ?

Well, first of all, this is very much a MS debate - so local leagues in the UK or elsewhere are not that relevant to this issue..... none of the regional/national leagues in Europe will ever be able to do what the NPPL is doing - it HAS to be a european league.

If it was my series, I would:

- Continue on the chosen path until the end of 2008 - with the notable exception of banning Pros from guesting in our semi-pro division

- Ensure a yearly "world final" - like the one held last year in Orlando

- Make the teams aware that come 2009, the CPL will be enlarged with 4 US teams, who I would then suggest qualified for a spot by ranking top 4 in the NXL in 2008.

- Try to make a deal that allowed the winner of the CPL to play in the NXL next season

- In 2008 bring CPL to 6 points per match, SPL to 5 (with a 2 minute turnover), and convert division 1 to the current SPL format.

- 2 teams relegated each year from CPL, 4 from SPL and 8 from Div. 1

- Convert Division 2 to regular 5 man and make it our entry level division, while maintaining M5 as the bottom division (thereby completely phasing out 7 man).

- Top 2 in Div. 2 to qualify for Div. 1 next year

- Set up feeder leagues in the UK, France, Germany, the Iberian Peninsula, Scandinavia and Eastern Europe, from where the season winner could qualify for a spot in Division 1 next year (so 6 teams from the feeder leagues promoted each year).

- ONLY secure venues that are 100 % concrete flooring, for both fields, trade area, players area and parking

- Set up a permanent marketing team that was in charge of: Local advertising prior to events, meet and greet people at the venue, fliers to be handed out to visitors explaining what paintball is all about, a commentating team working from first to last game geared for both casual observers and real paintball fans, etc.

- Set up webcasts "NPPL style" from all MS events

....just for starters

Nick

 

[Magued]

Nick and Pete

I hate to get in the middle of your discussion, but I feelt like Nick invited me..

Nick you are right, the Euro pro teams have become better than 2-3 years ago, but the US teams have also developed during that time, but more.
Training and equipment and fitness have improved alot but the US teams have also stepped up training. They have also for the last 4 years had 2 major legues where they play 10 instead of 5 major events/year. And the russians opened their eyes that they needed to step up training or loose.

So you are right that we have become better, but as you havent seen the US scene for a while you need to trust me on this. In NPPL we cant relax for 1 game, even if we are playing the on paper easiest team. They can beat us in 20 seconds. You never know what will happend. In Europe we dont have that pressure.

I would say that training and training in a smart way is 75% of a teams success. But after the training you need to play against good competition. I think if we look at the russians they actuelly proved this. When they first entered the Open Xball they beated Dynasty and others, but barely. This was due to their good practice. After a year of playing NXL they beat everybody easy. They now got the last 25 % in the bag and are a complete team. Hope this rabble made sense..

But I also think that the Euro teams can get much better and by good training get to the 75% where the russians reached. And that would take them far. But to be able to consistantly beat the US teams you need to play against them.
Now I have a question Pete, why the hell doesnt Sergey put in a team in CPL? That would help.

Magued

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

the Euro pro teams have become better than 2-3 years ago, but the US teams have also developed during that time, but more

I stand corrected

Do you feel the same is true in the NXL - which is more like CPL.... that the gap is wider than it was 3 years ago?

Nick

 

[Robbo]

Mag, I thought Nick had misquoted you when he first put that up Mag, Nick hasn't been to the US this year and can't compare.
But trying to get this point into him is like banging your head against a brick wall.
My point was always the gap had got bigger between us and the Yanks, I'm pleased you answered that and undoubtedly are the person most qualified to do so.
Nick, give it up .....it becomes tedious !