Hush, I don't think anybody in their right mind would take this result by the Philly Americans as indicative of American level of play, it was an aberration, nothing more than that.
Campaign......the verdict?
- Thread starter Lucky
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Well, I would agree with what you are saying, if that was the reality..... but I don't believe it is.
I can fully appreciate why you say like you do, coming off an event completely lacking atmosphere - even for a diehard player like me, I just couldn't be bothered to watch most of the games in the CPL.
But, I think that has a much to do with the layout at the CC as anything... I don't know if you went to Toulouse this year, but that was entirely different.
People CAN get exited about watching Euro teams, if the event is run properly.
Also, we have to think hard here, about what it is we really want....
You played the EXL - was it really that exiting to see RL beat up one team after another with double digits?
I don't think so - and I also fail to see what it brought us?
Maybe European paintball is better served with tough equal match ups?
And then, in closing, I honestly think you are painting too bleak a picture here.... the European teams HAVE improved - they ARE closer to US level than they have been for many years.... I think most Euro pro teams have improved significantly from last year, and continue to do so.
Nick
Nick this is a ludicrous statement, absolutely ludicrous.
Have you been to the US this year?
I have, I know what the Yanks can do and I know what we can do and let me tell ya, we are now further behind them than we have ever been before.
I seem to remember you saying something like this a long ways back but i could be wrong, either way Nick, your belief just doesn't hold water mate.
I realise that, I was just respondind to freddies post more than anything else.
It will be a different story in begium
Not this year, no - just watched the webcasts
But talk to Magued, or Christian from Menace, or Frank from the Tontons, or Frank from Consilium - for instance - and I believe they will say the same "closer - but still a ways to go".
Joy is today where the russians were in the EXL - but the dominance is not as big as back then.... they still win, but they win with less ease.
I may be wrong ofcourse, but that is my feeling.
The european players have improved significantly the past 3 years, and technically, most of them are actually better than their US counterparts today.... where we are lacking, is team play and game speed - and that will take a while yet.... a good while, but Rome wasn't built in a day.... and things are developing the right way.
Tell you what, get Sergey and Laurent to set up a few exibition matches in Paris, with RL against the best 3 Euro teams, and I will bet you the gap will be smaller than it was in the EXL..... and that will show you the gap has closed the past 3-4 years.
Nick
Well, I will agree to differ on this point and the only way we are gonna find out for sure is to have our top 5 teams play against their top 5 (or whatever and not including Joy) and I would bet my house we would get slaughtered but that ain't gonna happen and so we are just left with opinions..nothing more.
I have no doubt the result would be the same as it would 3 years ago..... but that is what makes this debate so hard..... how do you qualify if you are 5, 10, 20 or 50 % behind ? - when you are behind, you loose!
Still, I maintain, that the European pro teams have improved much the past 3 years, and further that the rate of improval is increasing, not decreasing.
Euro teams import superstars to guest, and obviously they stand out - they do on their own teams too..... but once you start looking at the common "bread and butter" US pro players, they are not that much better - not to the degree that they used to be.... heck - Rage comprised 2/5 of the Hellwood team this weekend, and they got 24th....... in the SPL.
What we lack in Europe are the superstars (except for guys like Sebban, Mellis and Lillen)..... and that is why the difference appears greater than it is IMHO.... when you see Ryan make a crazy run-through for the Tontons and singlehandedly win the game, the difference stands out... but he does that in the NXL too against US pro teams......
I believe the average US pro player, is not that far ahead of the good euro ones on the CPL teams and honestly don't think things are as bad as you make them out to be..... but as said, it is extremely hard for either of us to prove our points in this case
Nick
OK Nick, to get the answer we both seek, there is only one way we can achieve it if we are to assume we ain't gonna have an event where the top teams from the US and Europe will take part.
OK, You suggest that the gap between the top Yanks and the top Euros has lessened, I contend otherwise, that in fact, it has widened and although i can't prove it (and you can't prove your opinion either) I can however make it a reasonable assumption for ALL to make.
If we choose to look at a time, say, two years ago, now lets take a look at what environment our teams have played in...we have played against ourselves for the most part with Joy being the only serious team in terms of excellence, this is where Euro teams have honed thier skill base.
Nobody in their right mind could suggest the CPL is anywhere near the NPPL or NXL in terms of average quality of play.
That said, if we now look at the environment in which the top Yanks have played in the last two years, we can immediately see, their theater of action plays host to the best teams in the world ...no argument.
The NXL is as good as it gets.
Now, my assertion is this, that any team in the CPL cannot have improved at the same rate in its environment when compared to the hothouse environment of the NXL.
To survive in the NXL takes sooooo much more than the Millennium and therefore the improvement curve for teams playing in the NXL will be that much steeper thereby creating a larger disparity over the last two years.
If you argue against this Nick, you are on extremely thin ice mate.
OK, You suggest that the gap between the top Yanks and the top Euros has lessened, I contend otherwise, that in fact, it has widened and although i can't prove it (and you can't prove your opinion either) I can however make it a reasonable assumption for ALL to make.
If we choose to look at a time, say, two years ago, now lets take a look at what environment our teams have played in...we have played against ourselves for the most part with Joy being the only serious team in terms of excellence, this is where Euro teams have honed thier skill base.
Nobody in their right mind could suggest the CPL is anywhere near the NPPL or NXL in terms of average quality of play.
That said, if we now look at the environment in which the top Yanks have played in the last two years, we can immediately see, their theater of action plays host to the best teams in the world ...no argument.
The NXL is as good as it gets.
Now, my assertion is this, that any team in the CPL cannot have improved at the same rate in its environment when compared to the hothouse environment of the NXL.
To survive in the NXL takes sooooo much more than the Millennium and therefore the improvement curve for teams playing in the NXL will be that much steeper thereby creating a larger disparity over the last two years.
If you argue against this Nick, you are on extremely thin ice mate.
u let a girl push u abouti got physically push into the bunker while been checking it piss me off as it open a pod but it was a blond female marshal so i didnt say anythink
WIMP !
Why would I be on thin ice? - we are just debating here mate
Again I disagree....
You see, the rate of improvement is not as much dependent on your environment, as on your starting point.
For instance, if you compare Dynasty of 2 years ago, with Dynasty of today (and keep Oliver out of the mix to not overly complicate this)..... I think they have improved significantly less than say Syndicate or Menace or Consilium Dei - over the same period of time.... from each teams starting point.
Look at it another way.... had you put Ryan and BC on Nexus in the EXL - they would have run all over everyone except the russians, and you guys would have played every final.... but now.... in the CPL - they struggle to make a real impact.
You see what I mean I trust, and why I believe the gap - while still there - is smaller these days?
Nick