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Boring Air question...(sorry!)

guppy

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Apr 3, 2002
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sorry guys..boring question i know, but i'm thinking of buying a shocker with a 1.5L kev 4500 air system. Now i'm an old fashioned girl & am used to running/filling 20oz co2. So, as my site doesnt do air, i guess i need a dive tank. Where do i get one? how much is the initial outlay? How much to refill dive tank, how many fills of a 1.5litre cylinder from a dive tank, how do i fill it How often do i need to get bottle tested?etc etc. Any other equipment safety advice? pleez!!!:)
 

Cube

M2Q'd eblade or the LV1...decisions, decisions
May 4, 2002
920
99
63
Warrington
Hi Guppy

Air...good choice, it's easier to use and it doesn't freeze up but it is bloody expensive for the initial outlay.

Yes you'll need a dive cylinder, if you're seriously planning to run 4500psi you'll need a 300 bar cylinder and I've no idea how much they go for. If you're looking at 3000 psi you can get a 232 bar tank.

Have a look on yell for Diving Shops in your area.

You're probably looking £150-£250 depending on size.

If you are looking at using the full 4500 psi check that your local dive shop can fill to that pressure. The place up here I get my tanks filled at only fills 232 bar. Could be a waste.

Fills cost around £3-4 again depending where you go (232 fill 12L cylinder)

You'll also need a fill rig for the type of bottle you're using, Planet sell them at £42.50 +VAT for either the 232 or the 300bar types, (not interchangeable fittings). Finally you'll need a fill connector that fits the nipple type on your bottle, (though I suspect it'll come with the rig)

Number of fills, well depends on the pressure and the tank size and the output pressure of your reg. My Max-Flo is set for ~450 psi so the tank can go fairly low before that becomes an issue.

It was recommended to me to split another tank with a team mate and use one tank to fill initially, (full fill) and as that drops off use it to bulk fill all the bottles and top up the tanks with the other (full) bottle

We've got 4-6 good workable 1.9 3000psi fills off 1 tank.

Bottle tests I think are 3 years for breathing air, but they did tell me for non-breathing use they let it slide to 5, but that may well be bollocks.

Another good item is a carry handle of some type, or a trolley. These bottles are quite heavy, especially if carrying them a long way at the end of a long days paintballing. I've seen golf trolleys adapted and I'm thinking of trying that myself. Try to avoid carrying the bottle by the valve. It's convenient but not very good for the valve, (personal experience :()

Safety advice; use it sensibly and ignore the guy in the letters section of PGI declaring it dangerous. People have been doing it for years, airgunners fill bottles the same way.

Just get someone who knows, show you how its done and double check all your fittings before opening a valve on the tank. If you're used to filling CO2 it's not that different, just the bottle goes warm not cold :) and it's a much higher pressure.

Still a steel bottle exploding at 800-ish psi will kill you just as effectively as one at 4500.

Other than that, get someone else you know to move onto air at the same time and split costs like rigs. Get them to buy a bottle and life gets easier and cheaper.

enjoy air, and the lack of time spent messing with cold old CO2

HTH

t3
 
So many qustions, so little time.:p
Lets see If I can help:D
You can buy Dive tanks from a variety of sources and it depends on what condition you are looking to buy and what size. the best place to source them is at diving shops here you can see new dive tanks (a new 12 litre/4500 psi tank will cost you about £200),
but you can also find out if they have or know anybody who is selling 2nd hand tanks. A second hand 12 litre/4500 tank will sell for £50-£90 depending on the condition and time left on it's test certificate. The good thing is that if you paint ' land fill only' on the outside of the tank you can get away with only testing every 5 years otherwise its every 3 years just like the bottle on the marker.
You will also have to get a fill rig (£30-60) so you can fill you bottle these can be ordered from good p8ntball shops.
Filling the dive tank can be done at either the dive shop or any B.O.C. centre but ring them first to confirm that they will do it, otherwise you are lugging a tank around for no reason. To fill them should cost between £2-5 and dive shops are usually cheaper.
Good dive shops can also retest your dive tank this costs about £25 but be warned if your bottle fails you may end up with two half tanks:eek:
You will only get one fill of 4500 psi from a tank as after this there will be less preassure left in the tank and you next fill will be lower and each fill after that will be lower then the previous. But don't worry you should get more then enough fill's for at least two days balling from even the most gas hungery marker, and paint happy back player.
Filling is easy as pie. you pull back the collet on the end of the fill pipe and put it on the fill nipple of your bottle. then open the valve of the fill rig and leave it open until you hear no more air going into the bottle. You then close the valve and pull the collet back again this will then allow you to take the fill pipe off your nipple, and there you go all done (no more weighing bottles to see if they are full and none of that taking the bottle off the marker):D
Saftey advice: Always make sure the fill pipe is connected to the nipple securely before opening the valve, this can usually be acheived buy giving the tube a sharp tug. If it comes off its not secure. You need to make sure of this bacause you are playing with serious air pressures here and a whipping air line is not the nicest of things to have in your vicinity and even worse if it makes contact with you. Also always be carefull with the bottle as if the regulator on the bottle gets damaged and vents the air this things really fly.:eek: I've seen a safety vid that shows a scuba tank venting and going through 4 Brick walls.:eek:
Hope this helps you out, if you need to see a filling in action just ask anybody down at sparklies who is running an angel as these only run on air and they must have a fill system somewhere.
 

guppy

Banned
Apr 3, 2002
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Thanks for this advice

The marker i'm buying is secondhand and is already set up to run on the 4500psi cylinder. will i have trouble filling to that pressure from a dive tank? Would it be easier then to switch to a 3000psi system & get 232 bar tanks to fill from? Would i then need to adjust the marker to the new pressure? Sorry i'm a complete beginner on air!
 

guppy

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Apr 3, 2002
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Originally posted by Tortoise-Licker
Dammit cube beat me to it this is what happens when you ask so many questions:eek:
Tortoise...i'd appreciate any advice you have to give duplicated or not! Really stupid question now...how do you know when your air tank is full....with co2 i know by how heavy it is...can you overfill air easily, by mistake? Do you run 3000 or 4500 psi. which is 'best'?
 

Cube

M2Q'd eblade or the LV1...decisions, decisions
May 4, 2002
920
99
63
Warrington
Thanks for this advice

Originally posted by guppy
The marker i'm buying is secondhand and is already set up to run on the 4500psi cylinder. will i have trouble filling to that pressure from a dive tank? Would it be easier then to switch to a 3000psi system & get 232 bar tanks to fill from? Would i then need to adjust the marker to the new pressure? Sorry i'm a complete beginner on air!
If you're getting a 4500 psi system stick with it. I don't think there's any problems with putting 3000 psi through 4500 psi systems. The other way around on the other hand may be nasty ;)

The advantage you'll have is even if you have to get a 232 bar tank you'll still be able to work, but when you go anywhere that's running air with a compressor at 4500 you can use that too.

You'll get more shots out of a 4500 system than a 3000 system with the same bottle so there's an advantage there too.

HTH (again):cool:
 

Cube

M2Q'd eblade or the LV1...decisions, decisions
May 4, 2002
920
99
63
Warrington
Originally posted by Tortoise-Licker
Dammit cube beat me to it this is what happens when you ask so many questions:eek:
:D

but we both forgot the "Non-Flammable Compressed Gas (2)" sticker/sign for the vehicle that's carrying the bottle now didn't we.

BTW I've set one of these up in Word for printing out. Perfect for sticking onto one of those "Brat On Board" sucker cup sign things.

I'd say e-mail me if interested but my e-mail's bollocksed ATM, (teach me to try to change my website over to another host :( ).

Stick a note here, (if the mods don't shout) and I'll forward it on. Apparently you need to display this sign in a vehicle if it's carrying any form of compressed gas so the emergency services know there's an added danger in your vehicle if you crash.

Not sure if you need a TREMCARD though, not heard of needing one.
 
If you are going to be running a 4.5k system the possablilities of overfilling are non-existant. When the bottle gets to 4500 psi the preasures will be equalised in both bottles(it wont get to 4.5k anyhow as you are increasing the bottle volume buy 1.5 litres) You can leave the valve open all day and it wont over fill. Cubes right about the bottle getting warm, also when the bottle colls back down you will notice a slight pressure drop as warm gas expands.
I run a 1.9 litre/3000 psi govnair as I was desperate to put air on my dark and it was the first bottle I could find.:( It seems to suit me as I'm one of those fat b@stard (scuz the french) Back players who like to fling loads of paint.)
Eventually I will go over to a W.D.P. AIR system.
The only difference between the two preassures is that you can get more shots out of equivelent sized bottle with a 4500 psi system, so I suppose these are better.
I also heard that 5000 psi bottles are now available but where the hell we can fill these up i don't know