Bonus Balls?

[shamu]

Well, to me bonus balling is intentionally shooting someone who's already eliminated. I don't consider a bunker move overshooting unless the guy stops and lays on the trigger to put multiple shots on the guy after he sees a break.

So that "little bit o' love" bonus ball as he's walking off the field.... I think it's tough to make a rule to fully cover this. The rule as written can be used by a ref who's on the ball to warn or even pull a player who's obviously bonus balling. Putting an arbitrary number on it makes it a tougher call. Say we make it 10 hits. A player makes a bunker move and might get shot by three or four players, ending up with 12 hits. Is that overshooting? Probably not. Another player is walking off the field and some moron decides to put six or seven shots on the back of his head, but the ref can't call it overshooting because it's less than 10.

Bonus balling is a lot like playing on - if the refs are on top of things and run a tight game, players will know they can't get away with that crap (Huntington Beach). If the refs are lazy (or don't have armbands or deadboxes ) players are going to pull this crap (PSP LA).

 

[paintballer ron]

Well, one problem with putting a rule on it is that someone could get shot and then walk through a firefight to try and get someone on the other team pulled for bonus balling. Also, the people who bonus ball could say that the dude got in the way of where he was trying to shoot.

 

[knobbs]

Originally posted by joolux.//
going back to a point about recball, I think that recball is alot more trust_based, most recballers are purely recball and thats where they're staying and more often than not they're with people they know and trust...

The most I've *ever* been overshot was one of Paintball Sam's Big Games. EVERYONE would take shots as you walked off the field, and wouldn't stop with just one. I know some of them may not have known what was going on, but there were plenty that knew full well what was going on. I've also NEVER seen as much cheating in any game as I did there. That's why I've not gone back.

But the funny thing is, the only thing that bothered me about the bonus balling was that it was on purpose. You'd think that people who play this game regularly wouldn't put up such a hissy fit about get hit extra times, yet I've seen longtime tournament players screaming at people because "YOU HIT ME THREE TIMES!!!!" Is it right? No. Should it be punished? Probably. Is it that big of a deal? I don't think so. Getting hit isn't pleasurable, but it shouldn't be a big deal to anyone who's been playing a while.

That's just me though.

 

[Gyroscope]

It is truly miserable to lose a finals game to a Dead Man's Walk. It can turn you into a jerk forever, I guess, because I shoot players leaving the field. I try to put one ball on their pack, but sometimes it hits their back or head and they freak on me. I do it because 1)I have had DMWs determine two games I played, both finals games, 2)I am a front and so I can hit them reliably on the first try, with some discretion as to shot placement, and 3)if they try a DMW after that, they will probably get a teammate pulled for playing on. I have wished that DMWs would go away forever, but restricting the way a person moves while still in play seems impractical. I do have a modest proposal...

When a player is shot, they can indicate it by touching a hand to their head or raising a hand in the air. I like the former better than the latter, as it is unequivocal. If I play in a series where the rule says "players with a hand on their head are considered eliminated and may not resume play" I won't shoot such players as they exit the field. If the rule went on to say "players shooting a player with a hand on his or her head will be eliminated for overshooting ", then neither would most other players. It might happen by accident, but not as a regular, intentional occurance. I can accept being removed from a game for a mistake- that's what removes me from every game I live through.

The real overshooting we are talking about is the "extra love" you get sometimes as you go to the dead box, right? I got shot from like four different directions playing the SC Ironmen. I know why, too. They didn't want some punk on a Nov team shooting out half their team after a DMW and costing them a finals appearance. I can empathize.

 

[Tyger]

Originally posted by headrock6
If you came back and told me that guy intentionally stitched you in the back 30 times walking to the dead box,id tell you you were well within your rights to defend yourself from the player trying to intentionally hurt you,rules or no rules,and I think most would agree...

Ok, and what would that entail? Before you answer, think a moment. If I feel that I've been 'wronged', do I have carte blanche permission to brak the rules and law?

Do I have the permission to walk over to the offending player, put the barrel of my paintgun into his throat, and pull the trigger until my sense of justice is satisfied? What's to say I'm right or wrong? What if I walked past a firefight and got torched, showed the ref the splats, and dished out some "fronteer justice"?

It's hard to prove intent, as many lawyers will tell you. And, frankly, the refs don't care. I've been INJURED on the field before, the refs really don't care. Sometimes I believe that a player could run up on another guy, and beat him with the tank on his gun, and the refs would only seperate the players and make htem stage on opposite sides of the lot.

Originally posted by headrock6
Were at a time when markers,with not much effort can shoot 11-13 balls at someone and the rules havent kept up with the times..Your correct when you say its only gonna take one time for some little kid to be hospitalized cuz some moron thinks its funny,to have some serious heat brought down on us..But the real question is,with no rules in place now to enforce against bonus balling,what do we do to prevent it??

Unfortunatley, nothing. As a player, a COMMON PLAYER, there's really NOTHING that can be done about it. You complain to the ref about being overshot, the ref laughs and says "Suck it up." and "You have to expect that." It's easier to rationalise than it is to change.

As an individual, you can choose to overshoot or NOT to overshoot. That's your choice, as an individual.

As a league, I seriously think that tournament players should unionise. It would have given them some power at Vegas last year (HOW Many broken ribs? How many abbrasions and cuts? And how many broken bones?) Oh, wait, that won't happen because all the pros work for the companies that either SPONSOR or RUN the tournamens they play in!

Also, a players UNION can say "You WILL implement these rule changes, or we walk." But, again, it's a dream.

And it's only a matter of time before someone is held accountbale for thier actions. The concussion that LaSoya dished out is mild compared to what could have happened. Imagine for a moment a worst case scenario. Let's say someone puts 15 shots, point blank, into someone's throat. The guy's gun is hot, 310 FPS. The balls bruise the guy's vocal chords and throat, and rupture the arteries in his neck.

Ok, so that's not likely to happen. But, consider that LaSoya gave someone a consussion by shooting him in the head. And from all reports I've seen, he's sluffing responsibility for it. (If he IS or NOT, I don't know. But it seems like he's not accepting his accountability for the action.)

One player can not change a culture. I'm proof of that. One player can make a change, however. I saw a punker who had a jacket that had scrawled on the back "Show them what not to be." Not a bad idea.

-Tyger

 

[Silentbob]

You had better practise raising that arm quick

Originally posted by le-pig
yup,if you don't raise your arm,you have to expect some extra lovin

For KOTH2

 

[Tyger]

Originally posted by gyroscope
When a player is shot, they can indicate it by touching a hand to their head or raising a hand in the air. I like the former better than the latter, as it is unequivocal.

The Knoxville Indoor used to do this all the time. Hand on head means "I AM OUT." I don't understand why it hasn't become universal yet, it's SO EASY to implement, and it's "Audience friendly" because they can SEE when a player is done.

-Tyger

 

[RoryM]

Just to clear up the definition

From my experience marshalling Mil tourneys, etc. Paint raining in on you until you are called neutral or call youself out is normal, getiing mugged and taking 3-6 shots is normal aggresive play, hell you have to be aggresive to win the game!

But, there were a couple of teams we pulled up at Campaign over 'bonus balling' One very prominent US team was the worst offender, playing another US pro-team, any player making his way to the dead box, out of the tapes, arm in air, hand on the head, didn't matter they were lit up, big time.

After the game we spoke to the captain and told the ultimate to advise the other fields, end of problem, but it was something we noticed that was quite common by the US teams. Maybe its something they have just grown into overthere with slightly less efficient marshalls, I don't know, and I'm not saying it's just a US problem.

But thats what bonus balling is by my interpretation and it is quite hard to really put down in text what the definition is exactly, but I'm sure one of our wordy friends at PGI will have one!, It's just a rule that has to be enforced by a marshall 's judgement - which will vary from field to field at a tourny.

Any solutions greatly appreciated.

nuff said

 

[Red_Merkin]

Name and Shame,
Dynasty's back Right bonus balled the Bushwackers front Left player after he got shot out on the 50's. The player was off the field, out of bounds, and had his gun behind his head protecting himself from a stream of paint. He was continously bonus balled for several seconds.
This was on the Diablo X field, and the refs did nothing to stop it.

there were other incidents, but this one was the clearest that i saw, as the player was about three feet off the field, and had his gun in the air, giving two clear indications that he was eliminated.

To be fair, the player from BushWackers knew it was comming and did use his gun to shield the back of his head, probably saving him from a concussion.

 

[le-pig]

You had better practise raising that arm quick

Originally posted by Silentbob
For KOTH2

why sir
is that a challange