All hits are obvious hits. Good rule or no?

[Nick Brockdorff]

We lost - but that is besides the point!

Nick

 

[Chicago]

Paris last year, I played a whole game against the Tontons, with a goggle hit I received on the breakout - I just leaned my head against the dorito, posted a lane, and stayed there... now in that instance, it was just the ref being an ass, not reacting to the crowd screaming for 7 minutes to get me out.... and not noticing I was playing "funny"..... but under your rules, even if he suspected I was hit, there would be nothing he could do about it!

If you can't move the player, move the bunker!

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

I suppose that was a joke Chicago?

Nick

 

[Wadidiz]

Steve - if you say that as a head ref (and what is "touch significantly" anyway???) - you are just ASKING for trouble.

Once you remove the refs possibility of making a neutral call, while not being allowed to touch the player... you are effectively telling me - the player - that as long as I tug the hit up against the bunker, I can happily go on cheating for as long as I like, and there is not a damn thing you can do about it.

Paris last year, I played a whole game against the Tontons, with a goggle hit I received on the breakout - I just leaned my head against the dorito, posted a lane, and stayed there... now in that instance, it was just the ref being an ass, not reacting to the crowd screaming for 7 minutes to get me out.... and not noticing I was playing "funny"..... but under your rules, even if he suspected I was hit, there would be nothing he could do about it!

Nick, I've already pointed out why using neutral calls is undesirable. You've pointed out what can happen when we can't or don't use neutral calls, and I've already said I agree that's the down side of no neutral calls. So IMO the ball's back in your court. How should we apply neutral calls and is the price we would pay for such calls worth it?

I think Chi is right: we can (and I usually do) press in the obstacle if I'm looking for a hit. Usually it's too late by that time however.

Concerning "substantially touch" I mean not interfering. I believe refs should do their best to not interfere in any way with players and should try to let the game flow as much as possible. Freezing a field puts a major dent in that idea.

Another question, not that it necessarily proves anything: have you ever seen or heard of a neutral call in NXL, EXL or any other type of X Ball? I think NXL manages their games incredibly well without neutral calls. Not that players never get by with playing on.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

I think Chi is right: we can (and I usually do) press in the obstacle if I'm looking for a hit. Usually it's too late by that time however.

That is also interrence Steve

If I'm in a 50 bunker under pressure, there is no way you can "press" my bunker - thereby altering my situation.

My point is this: You HAVE to allow refs the leeway to call a player neutral, if the situation warrants it - because the alternive is either refs missing eliminations - or players getting eliminated because of refs - and neither is acceptable.

As for X-Ball and neutral calls.... no - I have not... but there is good reason for that!

When players are leaving the field, you have plenty of opportunity to check them, and assess penalties that apply for the next point.

You can't do that in 7-man - once the game is over, it is over.

Therein lies the rub.

I know you are in love with X-Ball - but you have to realise that a different format, requires the refs to handle themselves in a different way.

Nick

 

[Freddie Brockdorff]

There are too many players not getting penalized as it is, this rule increases it a little so we can actually get our moneys worth of paintball for a weekend as we are a customer.

Cause, you know, your ass was hit and still playing, maybe the CUSTOMERS you are playing against would like their money's worth and would like the refs to do something about the fact you're not following the rules.

AMEN !

I do agree, however, that refs should not significantly touch players nor interfere in any way. I have seen and heard of many instances of refs pushing or pulling players into hits--and that dog don't hunt. In my ref training I always instruct refs not to man-handle players.

So how exactly did you instruct them before NES this past weekend in Varberg?

 

[Wadidiz]

Players get checked at the end of single-goal games also--and penalties apply.

You still haven't answered the question: How do you think a neutral call should be applied? Freeze the field or not?

Another question: Showing the exact position of a snake player by standing her up offers a major advantage to that player's opponents--in many situation. It also interferes with the snake player's timing.

Is the hassles neutral calls make worth it?

 

[Wadidiz]

So how exactly did you instruct them before NES this past weekend in Varberg?

I didn't get much of a chance to instruct them on anything due to circumstances. But that will change for the future I believe.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

How do you think a neutral call should be applied? Freeze the field or not?

That depends on the situation - just like it were before

Showing the exact position of a snake player by standing her up offers a major advantage to that player's opponents--in many situation. It also interferes with the snake player's timing

Would you rather let the player continue playing with a hit, than messing with the players "timing" ?

Trust me, if you are going to check a snake player for hits - after sliding in - you WILL be giving the position away, no matter how you do it.

- Why is it a girl in the snake BTW ?

Is the hassles neutral calls make worth it?

Either that - or ACCEPT that a ref can NEVER touch a player or move a bunker to perform a check - it has to be either/or in my view.

Players getting eliminated, because some clumsy ref was positioned poorly to see him get hit, and thus has to perform a check by moving the player, is an absolute NO GO..... officials should NOT impact on the game negatively.

Nick

 

[Freddie Brockdorff]

- Why is it a girl in the snake BTW ?

Steve´s obsessed - after seeing how well all us girls played......