A Word / Poem On Ramping

[mad dog]

The Word On Ramping

I Hate the fact the truth is out there scene type of thing, I have said this before but we must learn to walk before we can run, so the home office have not approved the ruling on air weapons.


I asked for the papework to be shown to me and was not given it, so I wrote to steve bull and this was his reply.

Make up your own mind.


Mark

I will update the web site in the next couple of weeks, as a new site is being developed.

Incidentally it is the PA who have decided ramping is OK to 15bps, not the HO as quoted by everyone. The HO say they have no problem with modes as due to the frangible nature of a paintball they do not come under firearms legislation. BUT they always put a sentence "that whilst this is their view untimatelly it would be up to a court to decide". The HO like the way paintball self regulates the sport.

The nightmare scenario would be if a court was involved then the descision could go against paintball, and at the same time some "politician" looking to make a quick name for themselves could take up the "ban paintball as it is part of the gun culture" I know it isn't but we are an easy target!!!

You might think I am alarmist - I am not - this year I have been contacted by two parents who's sons have been arrested for possessing a paintball gun and threatened with being charged for possession of a firearm. A quick reference to the UKPSF web site followed by them showing the police and it became a warning and threat of the ASB act 2003. But we only need a police officer who pushes the issue, this would not happen with semi auto but could with burst or fully auto.

So less than 0.5% of the players in the UK could end paintball for 99% of the players. I am talking customers being the 99% not tournie players.

Personally I can't see what is wrong with what we have where SKILL determines the rate of fire rather than a chip. I will be having a vote at my next event to see what players views are but intrestingly I have had 6 players contact me to confirm that I will not be apdopting the PA rule as they don't want it!!!

A long reply but I appreciate views from respected player in the sport

Steve
www.playpaintball.co.uk

 

[Baca Loco]

The Word On Ramping

Originally posted by mad dog
1) ... so the home office have not approved the ruling on air weapons.

... The HO say they have no problem with modes as due to the frangible nature of a paintball they do not come under firearms legislation. BUT they always put a sentence "that whilst this is their view untimatelly it would be up to a court to decide". The HO like the way paintball self regulates the sport.

2) The nightmare scenario would be if a court was involved then the descision could go against paintball, and at the same time some "politician" looking to make a quick name for themselves could take up the "ban paintball as it is part of the gun culture" I know it isn't but we are an easy target!!!

3) You might think I am alarmist - I am not - this year I have been contacted by two parents who's sons have been arrested for possessing a paintball gun and threatened with being charged for possession of a firearm. A quick reference to the UKPSF web site followed by them showing the police and it became a warning and threat of the ASB act 2003. But we only need a police officer who pushes the issue, this would not happen with semi auto but could with burst or fully auto.

4) So less than 0.5% of the players in the UK could end paintball for 99% of the players. I am talking customers being the 99% not tournie players.

5) Personally I can't see what is wrong with what we have where SKILL determines the rate of fire rather than a chip. I will be having a vote at my next event to see what players views are but intrestingly I have had 6 players contact me to confirm that I will not be apdopting the PA rule as they don't want it!!!

1) So just what exactly does the HO do? Propogate bureaucratic opinions that have no force of law? "Well, it's ok with us but it isn't really our call." Then what's the point? Just curious.

2) And just how does capped auto or ramping etc. alter anything? Seems to me this is, and has been, the "nightmare scenario" that comes up now and again regardless.

3) If a semi gun can exceed the ROF of a capped auto or ramping gun whether by skill, bounce or whatever what is the practical difference? If I'm concerned about PB guns discharging dangerous amounts of paint and/or looking for political advantage why do I care about how technically it happens? How do I know the difference? At any time, apparently, some authority somewhere could make an issue out of almost anything related to PB.
How many of you have had newbs or the like ask if your marker was an automatic simply because it seemed too fast not to be?

4) The 99% who play once or maybe a couple times a year and get run thru the PB mill only to come out the other side none the wiser as to what PB really has on offer? That, and with their pockets turned inside out. Frankly, I think the vast majority of them could easily take paintball or leave it should the HO, some copper or politician decide PB is evil.
Given that scenario the ones who should be working to safeguard PB are the field owners and no doubt some percentage of them have been but it seems they also like the status quo as Robbo pointed out in his 4-part adventure last week. So maybe they don't really want too many changes.

5) Nicely done closing on a humorous note like that.

 

[Robeenio]

its been under my assumption that brandishing a paintball gun on the streets is very not good!

and thus have not taken it out anywhere apart from at home my back garden or at an event.

what the toilet duck is a kid doing on the street with a paintball gun anyways!

i think it is up to the parents and pro shops and internet sites to make em know that its a big no no!

i dont see that the 15bps ramp mode is a bad thing

 

[size 6 feet]

the home office has been dealing with the grey area of paintaball markers for over a decade now at least and still now bloody right or wrong judgement YET!! (even after all these of lobbying,by the industry and especially steve bull many thanks by the way.

but what is the big fuss about ramping chips ,after all every player can shoot 20bps all the time or so they say so why do the need ramping 15bps chips if they can shoot 5bps more than this

but seriously we need the goverment whoever it will be in the coming months to have a better understanding of this sport and how its developed over the years to the level we are at and where the sport is gong in the future to once and for all give us the players and the industry and more importantly the police DEFINITE GUIDLINES TO ADHERE TO SO NONE OF US FEEL THREATENED THAT WE COULD BE ARRESTED SENT TO COURT AND FINED OR AT WORST CASE SCENARIO IMPRISONMENT FOR THE SPORT WE ALL LOVE!!!

so mabe next time your hassled by some mps canvasser who asks you what party your going to vote for ask them not only about fuel tax,immigration,crime,income tax,BUT WHAT IS HIS/HER PARTY GOING TO DO FOR YOU AS A PAINTBALLER AND SEE IF YOU GET AN SORT OF AN ANSWER

WHICH I DOUBT

BIG UPTO ALL THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE PUSHING FOR US BALLERS TO BE LEGIT

LATERS
NEILL

 

[mad dog]

To say but one more thing, this is why its good to go over the rules sometimes to remind us , outside the world of tourney.

For god sake Lets get rid of the grey areas once and for all or are we all to scared to try this out.

I respect all that have gone down this path, STEVE BULL, ROBBO, ALL MM ORGANISORS.

If we cant handle critism then we do have a problem, to sort problems out takes knowledge and skill.

We can then go forward, I would put my trust in Steve Bull because he has nearly dedicated his life to this task.

He knows more than anybody I know and respect this.

 

[Russell Smith]

The Word On Ramping

Originally posted by mad dog
I Hate the fact the truth is out there scene type of thing, I have said this before but we must learn to walk before we can run, so the home office have not approved the ruling on air weapons.


I asked for the papework to be shown to me and was not given it, so I wrote to steve bull and this was his reply.

Make up your own mind.


Mark

I will update the web site in the next couple of weeks, as a new site is being developed.

Incidentally it is the PA who have decided ramping is OK to 15bps, not the HO as quoted by everyone. The HO say they have no problem with modes as due to the frangible nature of a paintball they do not come under firearms legislation. BUT they always put a sentence "that whilst this is their view untimatelly it would be up to a court to decide". The HO like the way paintball self regulates the sport.

Yes it was the PA decided we wanted ramping at 15bps, and we asked the ukpsf to talk with the Home Office to see if they had any concerns, As we expected they said NO just that NO.

Mark give it a rest, They will always be people who do not want change, but others will embrace it and move paintball along.

I see you have picked your camp and thats cool,as for me I want the future.

Russ

 

[mad dog]

Re: The Word On Ramping

Originally posted by Russell Smith
Yes it was the PA decided we wanted ramping at 15bps, and we asked the ukpsf to talk with the Home Office to see if they had any concerns, As we expected they said NO just that NO.

Mark give it a rest, They will always be people who do not want change, but others will embrace it and move paintball along.

I see you have picked your camp and thats cool,as for me I want the future.

Russ

This was said to me as many emails have come in saying I am right, because like a good boy I research everything, and sometimes I am wrong, then up goes my hand and I learn the correct answer when I am wrong, so tell me this will I or anybody else be done for carrying a marker on ramping mode in this country........ Also Do you know what the fine is / time in jail lol

The quote was
"Nope, you're spot on, the whole country runs like this, ignoring stuff until it all comes crashing down. Pistol clubs didn't regulate as much as they should..... nutters were getting hold of weapons, Dunblaine would have happened anyway, but the poor regulation of pistol ownership gave the government a scape goat. There was probably someone like yourself in early 1996........ concerned and trying to sort something, but told to be quiet. It may all be worries over nothing, but I've yet to see the letter that confirms it's OK".

I am done now, your left to make your thoughts heard as I feel I have had enough and somebody needed to just speak about it

I am on here because russel cant edit me here and stops him writing red stuff below everything I say, covering his ass. some good points I must add though

 

[Russell Smith]

Re: Re: The Word On Ramping

Originally posted by mad dog
This was said to me as many emails have come in saying I am right, because like a good boy I research everything, and sometimes I am wrong, then up goes my hand and I learn the correct answer when I am wrong,

Hand up now then Mark

Originally posted by mad dog
so tell me this will I or anybody else be done for carrying a marker on ramping mode in this country

If it's not illegal why would they


Originally posted by mad dog [/i]
but I've yet to see the letter that confirms it's OK". [/QUOTE] It's on the PA forums -as you know



Originally posted by mad dog [/i]

I am on here because russel cant edit me here and stops him writing red stuff below everything I say, covering his ass. some good points I must add though [/QUOTE] They are good points because I am right and not scaremongering, can you say the same.


Russ

 

[mad dog]

Please give it a rest, scaring people no opening thier eyes to things before they happen, was you a wanabee school teacher.... leave it alone with the red writing .

Why did x-ball finish sorry fade away because thier budgets where to high , look at this way just do what you feel fit mate I have said my piece.

Scaring people no, openeing thier eyes yes , questions answered maybe but one thing for sure I wont be happy until I have writen to the home office myself and got a letter saying they dont care what we do.

Then when some busy body, Anti social behavior twat comes up and says thats a machine gun and your 13 year old lad just shot me, the answer will be its a toy mate, here is a letter from the home office saying it can go fully auto so look away, and sorry told him he couldnt play with it.

I will write to the home office and ask them myself ok. For some reason you have stuck your mouth in too many places and messed up with me before.

And yes I pizzed with you , end of battle,.............

There is more to paintball than just you and the PA just remember that, God your like pinki and the brain .......... I want to rule the world pinki.

 

[Pee Wee]

.

I was under the impression that if your marker goes over 12 foot pound (which is 300fps) with ramping then and only then it could be classed as a firearm/illegal. Hence the reason why the PA has dropped it to 280 fps.


(Thats what I was told)

But really think about this...If the main issue is about ramp or enhaced rate of fire why is it that fully automatic BB guns are not illegal in this country?

***TAKEN FROM THE HOMEOFFICE FIREARMS POLICE DOCUMENT***

Quote " Air guns, air rifles and air pistols are exempt
from the certification requirement if they are
not of a type declared specially dangerous
by the Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons)
Rules 1969 or the Firearms (Dangerous Air
Weapons) (Scotland) Rules 1969.
The Rules provide that any air weapon is
“specially dangerous” if it is capable of
discharging a missile so that the missile has,
on being discharged from the muzzle of the
weapon, kinetic energy in excess, in the case
of an air pistol, of 6 foot lbs or, in the case
of an air weapon other than an air pistol,
12 foot lbs. quote"

To check out the whole document go to...
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs/policeguide.pdf
Page 11 for gas/air powered weapons

Their is no mention of paintball or fire modes so therefore cannot be classed as illegal unless it exceeds 12 foot lbs