A thought expirement: "Sleeper Cocker"

[Tyger]

I'm looking for a thought expirement here, and all help is appreciated.

The idea is very basic. I want to 'build' the ultimate Autococker.

Now the rules :

1) The starting form is a '96 or EARLIER "Stock" body.

2) The external form must not be altered. It may be added to (a drop forward, for example) AND it may have a diffrent barrel, but the basic form must remain. It MAY, however, be modified INTERNALLY.

3) Once finished, this cocker must be indistinguishable from a production model. It may run on CO2 or Nitrogen, Bonus kudos if you can make it perform up to high perfromance on CO2.

4) Money is, for this sake of this expirement, no object. The form, however, IS.

What I want to do is make a "Sleeper Gun", sort of a Volvo with a V-8 under the hood, if you know what I mean. I've toyed with the idea of starting with a body that looks like it's been thrown from a vehicle into a river too.

So, basically, "Tabitha's" ugly kid brother that's still a freakin' bolt thrower and can sling the paint, but still looks like it beongs in the hands of a walk-on guy. Ideas?

-Tyger

 

[MrPink]

How about keeping the Shroud on it so you could have a Race/E-blade set-up on it? That should raise a few eyebrows

 

[jeevusmaximus]

I would say either:

1) E-Blade, Freeflow or tornado valve, STO Ram, Black Magic reg, Belsales delrin bolt, Maddman Springs.

or

2) Blade frame (or whatever frame you prefer), and as above.

 

[Mark]

Keeping the shroud on.......do old cockers still have them lieing around? (sizes did vary for some reason, I have 3 all different)

The biggest problem to keep it looking "stock" would be the back block but I guess you would have to mill it away inside
and perhaps a body length (well to the air transfer point) internal hole to lose some of the weight ala spearhead style but INTERNAL cos to do anything to the outside milling wise would defeat the object, the bolt wouldn't be an issue as an ally one was the original style. the grip would be difficult to mod and keep stock especially as the early frames were made of that really crap allywhatever metal. The internal air chamber could be opened up to stupid proportions (over stock) due to the huge amount of metal in an original body. I have original cocking rods with the brazed connector on in a box somewhere so Tyger you want? (you probably have loads of old bits anyhow) 'cos other than looks, unless you fit titanium ones, there is no performance difference.
I'm sure I could think of a few more things but lets see what else gets suggested.....remember it has to look "stock" a race frame or E-Blade will be a bit of a giveaway unless you can think of somewhere to hide the electronics that are currently in the grips (they won't go in the original grip )

 

[Tyger]

Few points :

The shroud : Well, that's kinda a given. I don't think you can retrofit any other reg onto such a beast in ANY manner and make it look like the "Sledgehammer".

the E-Blade : I don't know, it would modify the outside, wouldn't it? Would there be a way to trick it without the "Eclipse" logo and the clip looking thing? The concept is to NOT give away "what's under the hood"

Teh back block can be the old style "BLOCK", if you remember those, or anyhting that was available for it. MY personal 'cocker has a "Tourney cover" that was made for 'cockers that coldn't take beaver tails. Teh block is flexable, When did hte first "P" blocks start in?

As to the rods and such, I would think thatfunction / form would dictate titanium only to keep the rust off of the metal. More than once I'vve had to de-rust my cocker rods.

I also thoght of having a bolt, removing the anno on the end knob so it looks like the stock aluminum bolt, and use an original pin in there too.

I also thought of replacing hte grips with a matte black DYE, as they don't look too far off the stock grips. Would there be a way to "hide" the electronics in there?

And, as you can probably guess, there's motive to my madness. I've like the concept of a "Sleeper gun" for some time, and with the newest and coolest of stuff out there, I'm intrigued at what you can 'hide' now. So, It's on my mind.

So far, I liek the concepts. Other ideas?

-Tyger

PS : Hey, MR BIG! Wanna run with this for PGI?

 

[jahlad]

ive been using a 'sleeper' for years!

ive got a 95 minicocker that is more or less 100% eclipse spec internally, only external bit you can see are the end of the bolt and the bolt pin....mmm and the 45 frame, but i guess that dont look out of place...i use it with the shroud on too

am currently building a vert feed cocker which will also be eclipse standard and e-blade but in a standard body

 

[Charlie]

Well if you are going to have a shroud on then you can change all the front pneumatics and still not change the look from the outside. In which case send the thing to Belsales and have them rip out the insides and front bits and completely replace everything (basically turning it into an evo). Now you could either keep the standard frame and have them do a wicked trigger job on it, OR have them replace the front block with a Race e-block (small enough to fit under a shroud) and then add a Race grip. Same size as a normal grip and no logos and you can use any normal grips including the ones you already have if you have a 45 frame already. So either way you will end up with a rocking evo which can run on both air or co2 (yes the race runs fine on co2) yet it will still look like an ugly chunk of metal.

 

[Mark]

Charlie..yes you can use a shroud to hide any shiney bits (electronic or other wise) but the grip frame, for the purposes of THIS cocker has to look like an old cocker as it left Bud's factory the trigger on a race frame would be a givaway, as I said in my first post the frame on the original cockers was in looks way different to what we see now and internally a nightmare if you were to try and fit electronics inside (Mods we need to be able to post pics in Techroom)

Tyger this post is gonna get moved (though it is tech related) I like the idea of what you are trying to do, maybe PGI would cover it it in a "The difficult way to make a flying machine !!"

 

[Tyger]

If it's gonna get moved, tha'ts cool. I figured it was tech, I'd start it there.

I keep reading about getting a "race frame" or an "e frame" on the beast, but Mark is right, it would be a giveaway. Changing the grip frame, the more I think of it the harder it is to get away with keeping it look "Factory Stock" mid 90's. Pobbily swap it for a .45 black metal stock, possibly, but other than that, it's not gonna be easy.

And if PGI wants to run with it, I'll be MORE than happy to write it up and a non tech guy...

(And, no, we can't use MY cocker, It's STOCK '95 by a promise to Bud....)

-Tyger

 

[NulodPBall]

Tyger: Everyone has good ideas, and I'm sure you already knew what you wanted to do, you just wanted to stir the ashes a bit
For the longest while, all I had were "sleeper" 'Cockers 'cause what I cared about was performance, and God forbid that I ever think about selling any of my babies...until I realized I had 4 extra 'Cockers laying around and the only reason I had them was for various random friends to use when I could talk them into playing...and I hadn't played walkon in a while.

Just a few notes: The mini-cocker back block is a bit lighter than the great big block of metal that the fullsized 'cocker had...although you could hollow out the fullsized back block easily enough, in a manner that doesn't show as much...either from the front of the block (the part that hits the 'Cocker) or from underneath.

Almost any ram is better than the old stock ram, but you can get one that uses O-rings for seals (later models in the brass type) and you can polish the internals with Mothers or somesuch.

If you do decide to use a Sledgehammer, there is an adjusting cap you can get for it. I would put teflon tape on the knob threads or loctite...it tends to come loose.

You could kinda cheat on the 3-way by getting something with a black body...also put the springlike LP hose covers on the LP hoses for a more "stock" look.

If you decide to go with a non-45 stock grip, the really old "crap" metal trigger frames with the plastic coating on it that peels off gives a much better trigger feel than the plastic-like composite material frames. By better "feel" I mean that the trigger slides better on the metal frame. Just make sure that plastic coating is removed from the inside of the grip frame where the trigger plate moves around in.

Of course you're going to bore out the air chamber in front of the main valve.

The best LP/high flow valve I've used was actually an old Sheridan valve that was bored out with the 90 degree hole going up to the bolt also bored out (both the one in the gun body and the valve body). Of course this means that the bolt has to have an ovalized or enlarged inlet hole. The Valve stem that I use is one of the newer, black ones with SS stem that ..I've ground down for better air flow.

As long as you use the old-style bolt pin, you might be able to get away with the shiny WGP bolt that has the enlarged inlet hole. If you still want to use an old aluminum bolt, you can still enlarge the inlet hole.

Since you have that large flat, blank area on the side of your gun, I like to get gold Vinyl 1/2" lettering and use it to personalize my gun just a little ("Tyger" in gold on the right side of your gun?). You should spray it with something to protect the lettering from the paint that will hit it (I used matte finish vinyl spray, using masking tape to limit the spray to the lettering)...not that I'm suggesting that paint will hit your gun, but just in case....

If the drop tube is too loose 'cause it's old style, you can have any competent gun tech replace it, I did on mine. If you upgrade to the drop tube with the removeable top you might be able to get away with it if you get a plain black one. I had a plain brushed aluminum one put on my gun and that kinda increased it's "ghetto" look.

Yes, you can use a Shroud but isn't it more impressive if you can show off those old looking internals?


Oh well, good luck with your "sleeper". Maybe you can now sneak into those beginner games?


Ray N.