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2006/2007 University Paintball League

Ion

Killing for NTT
Nov 22, 2003
212
0
36
37
London
www.andymarch.co.uk
I'm gonna back emokid up on this one (am personally not a fan of coaching to start with), but speaking to teams such as uni of west england who had no-one coaching and were going against far more experianced teams which were coached. This sort of thing makes a hard game near on impossible.

I think it has it's place maybe acceptable for a league but for the championship (where the newer teams are coming through) i think it gives another factor against these teams.
 

Emo~kid

Paint magnet
Apr 20, 2006
10
0
0
40
pJervis said:
were you pikey by any chance emo kid ? :D
i was indeed, i was the one with UEA written on my shirt in gaffer tape

You'll see a big change next tournament, we're getting a load of gear in, ordering ions and masks today and getting custom shirts made soon.
Of course that won't actually make us play any better, but at least we'll look the sh.it
 

FatTart

Merr
Dec 18, 2005
124
0
0
Visit site
Hmmm it was mentioned that Keele uni have a team?? Just to double check on this Keele the uni in north Stafford? If so would someone be able to contact me with details on them going there next year so would be good to play with/against you all ^^
FatTart o/
 

Bob

www.inlinewalking.com
Oct 12, 2005
2,852
3
63
38
Aberdeen
www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk
Edd Hobday said:
Again back to the PA. They've been using sideline coaching for over a season now without any problems, and trust me having lots of bodies round the field just confused matters. You just want one person to listen to.
Ramping & paint wise if you always shooting 15 bps rather than 10-15 in semi isn't it common sense that you would use more paint? Or were ramping games shorter?

Coaching - do you realy feel you need it? having some one telling you that your about the be bunkered, maybe be useful but is **** for the person who has worked hard to give you a good shooting over.

If someone makes a good move to the snake or you don't know where a player is should it be okay for someone with an unhindered (not being shot at or behind a bunker) view.

Coaching wise i think it is needless, this is a game based on the team work and skills of the people playing not on someones ability to rely on cheating (coaching used to be cheating, for a reason because it tetracts from the skill and fun in the game.)
 

Michael Merola

bust 3 hoppers in 1 day!
Aug 17, 2004
311
0
26
Milton Keynes / Birmingham
FatTart said:
Hmmm it was mentioned that Keele uni have a team?? Just to double check on this Keele the uni in north Stafford? If so would someone be able to contact me with details on them going there next year so would be good to play with/against you all ^^
FatTart o/
Keele do actually have a team and were formed quite recently. Im sure you can get in contact with them through the students union or if you contact Steve he may already have their details,

Mike
 

AUPaintSoc

(o)(o)
Jul 19, 2005
237
0
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39
Aberdeen
www.abdn.ac.uk
Coaching (or cheating, or whatever you wanna call it) can have a place in a game, but not neccessarily in every game. Coaching benefits more experienced players, it benefits the teams who live closer to the matches, it benefits more established clubs. For those teams who either live miles away (and therefore transport is an issue), or who have just been established (and therefore arent as comfortable 'zoning' into a specific persons voice) or dont have the roster available, coaching is going to negatively affect the way they play, either by distracting them or just helping the already better teams win over them.

How about this Brum, tell me the advantages coaching will have on Aberdeen, when we probably wont be able to get 6 or 7 people down for each game. Sure we can use other people, but if we dont recognise their voice, and they dont recognise our style of play its not really any use at all. Persuade me that it wont just help you as you storm down the field knowing exactly where our players are without actually having to work as a team on the field to get this information. You can quote the PA all you like but you know full well that as much as we'd like to emulate the success, credibility and level of play as the PA we're not at that level. Maybe your team is, maybe 1 or two other teams are, but the majority are not!

Ramping is a moot point, theres no point arguing about that really. Its pretty much accepted that thats what we're going ahead with.

The format of the league (and my entire previous post!) as well as allowing coaching are something that need to be agreed on though.
 

Manic Monk

UWE Paintball Soc
Feb 20, 2006
108
0
0
Bristol/Wiltshire
www.myspace.com
How about a compromise with regards for coaching, im all for croweds cheering but have them a set distance away from the tape so all the players can hear is the general cheering. Inside the gap between the crowed and field on match refs / other officals and players from the squads taking part. This means that each team can only have two coaches (i.e. the two players not on the field). If a ref hears any counter coaching then that coach should be removed from that game or the entire match depending on what was said etc.

I agree with what was said earlier if you dont recognise the coaches voice or they dont know your playing style it can get very confussing. This is what happend for us despite all involved have nothing but good intensions. Therefore if one team cant field any spare players as coaches then perhaps they could talk to their opposition and have a coach free match, i think we are all still on good terms with each other so i cant see this being a problem then again i may be out of touch with some inter uni grudges.

This is just my two pence worth, it may have already been tried somewhere else and fallen flat on its backside i dont know. What do you lot think?
 

Steve Hancock

Free man!
Aug 7, 2003
1,489
0
0
43
Birmingham (UK)
students.bugs.bham.ac.uk
Dear God! I don't check the forums for 24 hours and I have a several more essays/rambles to digest, and plenty of questions to answer. :p I'll start with the most coherent questions, and save the rambles for later.

League:
* Whos organising it? Like who is in charge (after you leave), who
handles cash, who books etc. I want to know who I give my money too, Im
sure you understand.

Steve Hancock said:
The plan I am currently working on is to set up the league in consultation with the host universities, and seeking the views of the clubs. Then, once everything is set-up, to hand over to an interim committee made up of reps from the host universities. Towards the end of the season you guys can elect a proper committee ready to run next year.
To expand upon a few of the specifics raised.
Who's organising it? I've been handling most of the over all planning. Myself, Dan from Portsmouth, and Matt from Kent have been liaising with venues. at the end of this year i expect most of the running and admin will be done between the host clubs.
Holding of funds etc. I was hoping this was something that the UKPSF would be able to help us with, but VAT issues have made this unworkable. This is one of the many things that I need to figure out, but is not currently a priority. It will be settled before entry fees are collected though.

* Is there something in place in case we have issues with the way the
league is ran, i.e. do we have any say at all?

That's kind of what we are doing now. Admittedly its not very official, and is mainly just consultation, but I can assure you that I am not doing/going to do anything that goes against the consensus. Once the league is up and running I feel that it is important that major decisions are taken by a vote.

* Can we help organise things in any way?
As I have mentioned, the host universities are already doing so.

* Is it purely students helping out of the good of their hearts? I cant
see that working all the time, as far as I know only you have shown any
inclination to get off their ass to help further paintball (more than their
own society). Why is that going to change now?

Yep, I am a rare breed :p which is why we need to establish the organising structure. I see this as something to do once the league is set up, either over the summer or during the course of the season ready for next year.

* I presume we can get a complete breakdown of fees etc?
Yep, The league's budget will be available once the costs are final. Obviously, this will be prior to the collection of entry fees.

* Could we agree for sure on the format/rules etc. Could everybody be
made aware of these.

Again this will be settled prior to the collection of entry fees. Possibly with the exception of ramping, which would depend on the teams that have entered.

Championship:
* Again, whos organising it, the same people?

I've come up with a provisional date, and I have discussed with Matt from Kent that I think their local site (SE paintball village) would be the best venue. But that is all. I don't plan to have any further part in the organisation of this. You guys will have to sort it out during the course of the season.

* Format/rules, same as the league?
I expect that a single game center flag format, like this year would be best. The championship is intended as an introduction to tourney ball. But again, up to you guys.

* How many teams can each Uni enter?
I'd guess it depends upon the number of divisions, 1 per Div would make sense. But - you guessed it - its up to you guys.

___________________________________________________________

Okay, the other issues that have been raised:

Format
By format, I'm referring to the idea of using a match format, rather than playing individual games. The issues of ramping and coaching can be addressed separately, as it is possible (but not preferable) to do a match format without these. So I'll come on to those below.

Firstly a question -
It says that
"5 players on field per team.
. Maximum 7 players per game.
. Maximum 9 players on the roaster."

5 players on the field per per team and 7 per game? can bodies be changed around on a time out?

Yes, Players can be rotated. But its worth noting that we needn't stick to the millennium's max of 7 rostered per game and 9 per round as it could prevent clubs from fielding some of their players, and discourage them from introducing new players to the sport.

On to the arguments against having a match format. There were 3 main issues raised:
1. We would be sitting around for long periods between matches.
It is not so much the amount of time spent playing and not playing, this would be wouldn't be affected whether we play single games or matches. The difference would be whether they non-playing time is spread over the day evenly, or whether it is in larger periods. With smaller more frequent breaks, you can't actually do anything with the time as you only have a short while before you will be playing. With a match format, you don't have any more non-playing time, but you get it larger blocks. This means you can actually do something with that time like watching the other matches, which would be much more fun than spending the whole day waiting for games.
2. More complicated to run (from the event organiser point of view)
I completely disagree, its far easier not to have to have different teams on the field every few minutes. A match format would be far easier to run.

3. Harder/more complicated for new team
This is true, it would be too hard for complete beginners. This relates to our objectives for the league and the championship. I'll talk more about this below.

Ramping
A lot has already been said on this, which I won't repeat. I feel (just my considered opinion) that there are a lot of misconceptions about ramping, and many of the arguments against it are based on false assumptions due to a lack of experience with seeing it used. But we don't really need to worry about it too much for now. It is something we can decide upon closer to the time, once we know which teams are playing the league and whether they can reasonably be expected to field sufficient ramping markers.

Coaching
Another contentious issue within paintball. You may remember that at the championship this year the field was end on to the safe area. I was originally planning to have it side on and limit coaching to from behind the netting. However there was a miss-communication, and the field was end on instead. Limiting coaching to behind the netting would have given the team starting at the safe area end an advantage, so we allowed caoching from the sideline. I didn't want to have no coaching becasue we had said that we would have it. Next year the coaching will be limited to from behind the netting. Because of the match format teams will have more time to watch other matches, and with the spectators the host universities will bring down I'm expecting a lot more people watching the games. As a result individual coaching will be a lot harder to hear, removing the advantage to the host team. If we still don't want ramping, we need to find a way to make standing in silence less boring, or we could just give up on promoting the sport by having spectators down. Regarding issues with counter-coaching, I think it is nearly so much of a problem as people are making it out to be.

_____

We need to balance the need for university paintball to be accessible and an introduction to paintball, against the need to develop and progress the standard of paintball played at a university level and to offer the better teams and players something worth playing. Unfortunately these two aims tend to conflict. As a result the strategy I suggested was to have the championship as the accessible introduction for new teams, and to have the league as the competitive environment to drive up standards of play. This means that the league might not be best suited for completely novice teams. Yes there will be advantages for teams with bigger squads. This will encourage teams to recruit more. Yes it will require teams to be more organised, so they will become more organised. All your points about making it accessible do apply to the championship, and are how I think it should be run. But the league is a different animal.