Too many teams?

[philfull]

not bitching just raising the point that there are a fair few players that carnt afford that kind of travel either regularly or at all. some players carnt even drive what then?

Theres a player i know of in the "sticks" who woul dlove to go to all the tournaments, and even if he got a train the stn nearest the field is still a good 5 or so miles away from the field itself.

only raising a point so please dont think im having a pop/seeking a battle (please )

i dont drive and my nearest training site is an hours drive, i can get there because i play in a TEAM this is an important word if you play in a team tou dont take 5 cars on a 500 mile round trip to a tourney same with training. and if your new and not on a team then you most likely know someone on a team that introduced you to the sport and you train with them in the same way.

saying ohh its too far is like saying it costs too much people with dedication find a way to play.

anyhoo how can you have too many teams?

local tourneys thrive on noob teams and if you dont have the teams then you dont have the game. you cant expect new players to just train and not have game time can you? or do you expect pro teams to wander the forests of the country looking for rental players that look like they may have some talent?

 

[jus]

i would say its painfully obvious that as a young growing sport the industry needs more players and teams alike.....
so what if a team will never reach pro status, they are still as valid as any pro team ever was. i never heard anyone say ooh there are too many amateur football teams or too many hockey teams. The difference here is that to compete in almost any other sport you have to be a member of a club, working your way through the ranks getting proper training in the right environment, and mostly get selected to compete in a structured league or tournament. so yes academies, but not less...... more.
federation...... the way forward

 

[rewind]

woah, lots been said since my last post.

Raffles, in response to your question to me a while back, those kids that are stuck in the teams that didnt bump up, its that determination from seeing other teams bump up, and fighting to do so next season.

As stated previously, its about having the will power to progress. (money is an influence there somewhere too), but having the cahones to actually push yourself harder and further.
The team ive been playing with this season has plateaued and its beena real struggle to get any further with both skill level and optimism etc. and what you ned s that extra push to bump start you again.

What was said about bringing in one national competition was a brilliant idea, and I think that is what the ultimate plans are, what with UKPSF registration etc. (I could be well wrong, so dont flame me if i am).
As this would really give people something to aim for.

But as far as I can see, the only factor that really is holding these teams back, is the willpower, strenght of mind and determination to get ont he feild practive and be beat and drive themselves through the trenches to get to where they want to go, otherwise, they will plateau and jsut mill in the same div.


Of course, the other slight point i would make is that without the lower divs and teams, who is there to compare the good teams to?

 

[Return of the Silver Fox]

JJ - Thanks for posting mate. It's good to see this from the 'pro' perspective. If I read you correctly, you say that the 'top' UK teams do, indeed, have scouts at domestic events - like the Masters, Syd's etc. Is this the case?

There's greater pressure on the pro teams to perform - a lot of sponsorship relies on it so loyalty to players has to be less of an issue than in the lower division teams.
Therefore it naturally follows that the teams either constantly maintain/improve their performance or lose sponsorship/status. The only way to do this is take players from other teams. The hard way is to transfer from other pro teams, the easy way pick up good players from other teams and if you think they care what effect this has on your team your mistaken.
I think this is now so ingrained that you won't see many (if any) new top flight teams. The teams that have dominated paintball in the uk will continue to do so because up and coming teams will be stripped of key players.
Its always been that way and its the natural way of things - survival of the fittest.

 

[Raffles]

Thanks to everyone who's posted so far. Makes for very interesting reading .

I suppose the best analogy I can draw upon is football (soccer for the US of A'rs ). Premiership teams tend to sign players from the equivalent leagues around the world. This makes it harder for any local talent to come through the ranks. It does happen though - Joe Hart (Man City) is a good example. He came to City from Shrewsbury and ended up playing in the first team in the Premier League. Now, with City signing Shay Given and Taylor (and a couple of other goal keepers) - Hart has had to go on loan to another club (Birmingham I believe). Still, he is playing in the top flight of English football - a dream for him only 2 years ago! This was all brought about by the scouts at City going to Shrewsbury, recognising the talent and recommending him to the manager.

This, I think, is where paintball is missing out - lack of scouts.

I appreciate what John said - sponsors tend to pull the strings - and want their teams to be the Real Madrid of the paintball world. This is understandable - as those teams are seen as a business investment - and require a return of some sort.

I'd like to see a response from any of the major sponsors on this - as I could be (and probably am) completely wrong.

 

[Tommy Gun Nexus]

Interesting post, with many tangents

Regarding the scouts/talent points..
Top teams will always bee looking out for new talent. Raffles, you are correct that this sport doesnt have official 'scouts'. We do however have all players on top teams looking out for their next pickup or potential talent.
Using Nexus as an example, i can genuinely say that i believe that between us we know of every single player out there that is making moves and playing good paintball. Problem is, from experience, the majority of those players wont make it as top players, whether that be by commitment, attitude or straight talent. Pro teams don't have the time or resources to train up players from scratch. We need players that can step straight in and play semi decent pro level paintball, most rawness needs to be cut and sharpened through time playing divisional paintball against better opposition.
Biggest thing in my eyes is people need to help themselves if they are going to get anywhere. Every Pro player on the circuit now has spent years commiting everying to being the best. No body has had made it easy or asked them if they fancied giving pro paintball a go..
Every Pro player has earnt themselves a trial or put themseleves in the right places to get noticed and biggest thing of all, have performed consistantly when it mattered.
Just to highlight where i am coming from, Nexus run an OPEN trial for anyone who wanted their shot in 2008.. I think we had 20 players show up including 2 foreigners. About 5 more of those were invited, meaning we had about 13 people come off their own back. Not great numbers by any standards, and hardly inspiring to run any more.

I really think Players that are commiting everything, make an effort to speak to players that could help them, put themselves in the right places and keep an open mind will have the best shot to make it.. Players with bad or know it all attitudes will not, however good they are.

'Club' structures are a great way for this sport to progress in my eyes. Jimmy Frensham has had some great ideas for the Federation to try to follow up on along this wavelength which could be really beneficial for new players; to nurture them and to make sure they get the right training from the start. Changing the way the sport is structured however is a mammouth task and will take great effort and time.
Like Lovetone said, biggest thing we can all do is to support our local training venue to ensure it is worthwhile for them to continue to do what they do best.

Tommy

 

[essx]

Every Pro player has earnt themselves a trial or put themseleves in the right places to get noticed and biggest thing of all, have performed consistantly when it mattered.
Just to highlight where i am coming from, Nexus run an OPEN trial for anyone who wanted their shot in 2008.. I think we had 20 players show up including 2 foreigners. About 5 more of those were invited, meaning we had about 13 people come off their own back. Not great numbers by any standards, and hardly inspiring to run any more.





Just wondering if this is possibly because many people feel intimidated or worry that they would embarrase themselves?
The jump to try out for a team like nexus before being scouted or spotted would be a big one in many eyes perhaps??!!

 

[Robbo]

I think great players, at whatever stage of their career, stand out like a sore thumb from everyone else.
Remember here, the original Nexus was made up of 7 novice and amateur players and those guys went on to achieve 7th place in the world's top ten within 6 months ....

Tommy's point of being aware of all aspiring players is a good one because no matter what team you play for, if you ooze talent, then trust me, people will notice it.
It just remains for that talent to be harvested and moulded, if in fact, the said players want it enough.

 

[JF21]

im a bit confused where this thread has actually gone so im just going to write a long rambaling post because im bored (its actually the second as some idiot just walked round and cleaned this touch screen removing all i had written, but i digress)

firstly teams, its a hard one as the industry needs lots of active teams but obviously trimming the fat and taking only the best players and consoladating would improve compation. i think the issue lies when you get a mix of cimmitment on a team, skilled and commited players feel deuty bound to stay with non teams who dont want to train and improve.
there is nothing wrong with playing once a month but i think players should join like minded teams, allowing the players who want to improve to do so. i am lucky enough to play on tigers, where the whole team is strives and trains to improve and as such i feel im getting better (some may argue) but before that i was on a mix of teams where commitment lacked and the team could not improve.

i feel the issue with the majority of uk players and thus teams is two fold:
firstly a lack of commitment and more importantly an unwillingness to travel. how many times have you herd players complain about thier teams lack of commitment but say there is no where else to goin their area. in my opinion the uk is so small it is ine area. if we look to the us i can site two teams who travel huge distances to train. firstly phoenix arazona, obviously from phoenix they travel and train in south cali.
secondly velocity wrecking crew who were div 3 psp. they are based across cali with one flying in from chicargo and a few traveling in with part of their coaching team from arazona.
the second issue seems to be pride. people train alongside the likes of shick and nexus week in and out but dont take advantage of this by asking questions. even worse when these and other pros run clinics they are canceled due to poor numbers.
i went to a clinic run by tommy awhile ago and only 8 people turned up but i think everyone there learn from it (i at least did and i think i had been playing the longest). this turnout was even worse considering it was only a little more than a normal training. i put this down to people feeling they already know it all, which is never the case. however good you are it helps no end to have someone watch your game and pick up on bad habits you may not even notice. sadly due to numbers there are no more of these clinics planned.


so in short no we dont need less teams we need more commitment like minded players to consoladate and take advantage of the resources on offer

 

[Raffles]

...so in short no we dont need less teams we need more commitment like minded players to consoladate and take advantage of the resources on offer

You hit the nail right on the head there. Unfortunately, the scourge of the paintball player will strike every time - not swine flu - more deadly than that - apathy!

...Just wondering if this is possibly because many people feel intimidated or worry that they would embarrase themselves?
The jump to try out for a team like nexus before being scouted or spotted would be a big one in many eyes perhaps??!!

That is exactly my point. In football, players are invited to try-out for the bigger teams - they don't hold open days and hope some new talent will just walk in. Maybe if we had people out there inviting the youngsters to their 'invitation only' sessions it would get more trying to get that invite in the first place (bad grammar - but you get my meaning ).

So - is the answer to have 'scouts' at most events/training sessions?

PS - thanks to Tommy (Nexus) for your insight .