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Bottle Blows Up

Beaker

Hello again
Jul 9, 2001
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Oh hell I wanted to stay out of this thread, but some big misconceptions need to be cleared up.

Right, here we go.

Oppy - You're wrong. Sorry but you are. The whole Stako have "proved" anything argument isn't about the Madrid incident or anything about tanks exploding. That was about Max last year where bottles were bubbling/leaking through the fibre wrap during filling and HPAC imposed a filling ban at the event. Stako then argued it was a safe by-product of the design and the ban was lifted as per your press release quote. Please don't perpetuate that it relates in any way to "proving" anything related to these incidents.

The Madrid incident was indeed put down to oil in the regulator.
The Budapest incident had been too, possibly contaminated from the compressor - the plastic liner had scorch marks/bubble indicating a fire inside the tank. (There's a pic in an old PGi)
The Freekz incident is under investigation

Facts:

Stako don't make regs. There is no such things as a factory fitted reg on a Stako. ALL regs are attached to Stakos somewhere else in the supply chain. So don't assume any reg has been attached properly unless you know/trust the airsmith selling it. Please stop equating the reg with Stako.

Stakos are rated as bottles, all safety information/tests/approvals/certificates is purely based on their pressure rating in a lab environment and nothing else. There is currently NO standard for paintball air equipment that tests its suitability for the sport with what we actually do to it. This applies to ALL tanks/regs/hoses. e.g. A macro line might work fine up to its pressure rating in a lab and "pass" but when it comes to being put in and out of an elbow, one might fail after 5 goes, another after 100. They've both passed the lab pressure test, but one is better for paintball than the other. A tank might pass all burst tests going in a lab, but a combination of diving, stressing the neck threads and interaction with the regulator in a manner specific to paintball might cause a failure. Remember, there is NO paintball-specific standards for air equipment so please stop throwing that argument about too.

There have been three Stako incidents in the last year. Yes the whole "Three Fords crashed last week, ban them" argument appears sound, but it isn't. There has been HP air in paintball for around 12 years. In that time there has been a few high profile bottle fires (where the bottle stayed attached), that Crossfire bottle in SA and 3 Stako/Reg incidents. That's in 12 years of everyone in the world filling up their air bottles. It's not that there are 100 incidents a year and 3 happen to be Stakos, then your Ford crashing argument works. Keka/Olly etc are saying that there have been NO, NONE, ZIP, NADDA incidents where an air bottle separated from the reg in 11 years, now there have been 3 where Stakos have been involved within a year (excluding the whole bubbling fibre wrap incident). That's not the same thing and whole lot more statistically significant than the Ford example.

There was another point, but I've forgotten it. I'll add it later ;)
 
O

ollytheosteo

Guest
There have been three Stako incidents in the last year. Yes the whole "Three Fords crashed last week, ban them" argument appears sound, but it isn't. There has been HP air in paintball for around 12 years. In that time there has been a few high profile bottle fires (where the bottle stayed attached), that Crossfire bottle in SA and 3 Stako/Reg incidents. That's in 12 years of everyone in the world filling up their air bottles. It's not that there are 100 incidents a year and 3 happen to be Stakos, then your Ford crashing argument works. Keka/Olly etc are saying that there have been NO, NONE, ZIP, NADDA incidents where an air bottle separated from the reg in 11 years, now there have been 3 where Stakos have been involved within a year (excluding the whole bubbling fibre wrap incident). That's not the same thing and whole lot more statistically significant than the Ford example.

There was another point, but I've forgotten it. I'll add it later ;)
Not only that, but I think some of the posters that have only used air from HPAC etc don't remember the way things used to be with HPA- we went from bring your own dive bottles and fill with your own fill rigs to dodgy compressors giving dirty flash fills, through to the current state of affairs where we get really good clean air from experts (love you guys). When Wendy thanks HPAC for the clean air fills all day at the Masters it's something worth thanking them for, as there have been far worse ways of filling bottles over the years. Even with all that said, over all that time we never saw bottles blowing their regs off and explosions etc, that's something which has started since the Stakos came along. I'm sorry but I can't trust them anymore, nor respect the argument that a lighter bottle is worth the risk; you may feel you choose to take any risk yourself but there's always a chance I could be standing next to you. The Stako fans are prepared to offer any excuses but it all comes down to wanting a lighter bottle which to my mind isn't enough. After the last blow up we had people saying they'd quit rather than go back to a heavier bottle, if that's still the case well, I'll miss you, but not as much as I'd miss any body parts that get in the way. Nige wasn't badly hurt thank mercy, but if he'd been crouched over looking at the gauge or someone's chest had been in the way of the bottle we'd be looking at a real tragedy, and again I just don't think it's worth it just because people want to save a few ounces or don't want to buy another tank. Honestly, I've never understood the six guns and one bottle mentality anyway; if you can only afford one setup then fair enough, but you can always borrow a spare gun at an event wheras air systems are thin on the ground if your fill nipple starts to hiss, and it's then that people start thinking about a drop of oil to seal things up.
 

jus

Bulldogs
Mar 18, 2006
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26
stafford
i have purchased myself a little bag of stainless steel fill nipples and my own personal flow restrictor today and will continue to use my stako. but when im at a site if im not happy that the compressor filters are up to date....... i'll be a spectator :)
 
J

Jeff Abbott - Dye

Guest
i have purchased myself a little bag of stainless steel fill nipples and my own personal flow restrictor today and will continue to use my stako. but when im at a site if im not happy that the compressor filters are up to date....... i'll be a spectator :)
Please let everyone know when you will be filling your tank so that they can make the decision to stay clear of the area until you are done.

It would be appreciated
keka

ps... I would also advise you to sit by the compressor all day long so that you can see if anyone contaminates the hose you will be using to fill your tank.
 

Echowitch

Southern Pirates
Please let everyone know when you will be filling your tank so that they can make the decision to stay clear of the area until you are done.

It would be appreciated
keka

ps... I would also advise you to sit by the compressor all day long so that you can see if anyone contaminates the hose you will be using to fill your tank.
Hey Kaka, what would you say is a safe distance for people to stay away from a Stako bottle filler ? 1....2....hundred miles ? ;)
 

NitroBall

SandStorm
Feb 20, 2006
2,890
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Hey Kaka, what would you say is a safe distance for people to stay away from a Stako bottle filler ? 1....2....hundred miles ? ;)
Haha, ^thats funny:p

It is very worrying for everyone, we are all thankful no one died, and for the sake of paintball, hope there wont be another incident like this. Use common sense, read the facts, and spread the knowledge, especially to those that are new to paintball.

Speedy recovery Nigel, hope to meet you one day, preferbly not near a filling station;):p:)
 

Kitch

Super'5ives'Man
Jul 10, 2001
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Just to clear some things up, The Freekz Compressor was taken away yesterday evening for examination/investigation, the preliminary results have been telephoned to Mick the site owner/operator.

The was no oil deposits found in any of the lines or anywhere it wasn't supposed to be.

The output pressure of the compressors has been checked and has not exceeded 317 BAR.

The output pressure of the storage bank has been checked and has not exceeded 305 BAR.

The Fill rate has been checked at the station and a 4500psi fill from empty for a .8l bottle is 10 seconds (a 1.1 should be around the 14/15 second mark).

Once the full investigation has been completed and documented all the documents will be available to download from the Freekz website.

All of the above is how the Freekz setup runs normally as well, the compressor has a excellent filtration system which allows the air it supplies to be classed as breathing air for hospitals, anybody wishing to view our clean air certification please ask, I am sure soon we will also be able to provide this electonically, though it is unavailable at present.

I will stay out of the conjecture and flaming that seems to have overidden this thread and will only post the cold hard facts as I get them.

Freekz paintball are also reviewing safety proceedures at the site with regards to the filling of tanks, and will be posting all of the changes as and when they are finalised.

Freekz Paintball wish to thankyou all for the offers of help and your support at this time.