NPPL Pro scores

[shamu]

I think it's interesting to note that one major difference between this year and years past (when it comes to integration) is the change in personalities involved. With the new ownership of the NPPL, you remove some of the history that came with Jerry, Chuck, WDP and the rest. Maybe with some of the egos out of the way they can work out the details of a real integration.

Of course, just because change is coming doesn't mean it's going to be for the good. If there is an integration, there's actually less incentive to spend the extra money on things like venues and reffing if you have a captive audience.

 

[Chicago]

And that's why who ends up running the integrated effort is important. Back in the day a lot of the problems were because no one was really running the league - events were run by people who had other businesses and all they did was the bare minimum to keep the events going.

Now, there are some people involved in running these events who do it because they take pride in the product. If those people are given the opportunity to continue to run the league, and get better resources as a result of there only being one league, I have no doubt that things will improve.

But it really does depend on having the right people. If the people who take pride in the end product are replaced by bean counters, then we're in trouble.



Also, I don't think the audience is as captive as you suggest. If the events are run poorly, a lot of people will simply just keep playing regionally or stop playing all-together.

 

[Missy-Q]

Like I said. Missy will do it.

 

[SPHEREPOINT]

Those events didn't die off because of PSP/NPPL events. Well, not because of the number of them. Events that charge $80+/case for paint (Skyball/IAO) can not compete with events that are BYOP, events that are across an international border from most of the vendors with trucks getting held up at the border can't compete with those that are not (Skyball) and Bunkerfest is mainly the result of Mondo having his hands full on his other business.

On top of that, there's the growth of regional leagues like CFOA and XPSL. Lots of teams used to go to events like Skyball/IAO because that's the only place you could play short of playing NPPL. But the big regional leagues now provide an experience close to Skyball/IAO and it's much closer and cheaper. When you can play CFOA or XPSL there's much less reason to hoof it to Toronto or bumblescrew PA.

While regional leagues have helped fill the gap, and some of those old school national events had their flaws (field paint is a glaring example), you can't deny that the schedule has become packed with PSP/NPPL events. There is no room (or money) left for anyone to try any new or continue old big stand alone events.

Secondly, the belief that X-Ball is the end-all, be all answer to paintball's problems is the kind of thinking that got us, at least partially, in this mess in the first place. Having played and paid both formats, X-Ball requires too many players, plus pit crew, coach(es), and quite a bit more money when the total picture is presented for the average team to build and maintain. And that is what we are really talking about, isn't it? This isn't about the All Americans, Dynasty, or the Ironmen. It's about Bob Long's Blast, Farside and other lesser funded teams. MOST importantly it's about the XXX Factory teams, XXX.Com, and Team XXX teams out there living this life on their own dime 100% of the time.

A unified format that has a moderate cost with lower manpower requirements, and ease of presentation is the answer. Hopefully, something new is built from the solid points of both X and 7. Some of the features that I believe should be considered:

1.Roster limit of no more than 10 players
2. No mandatory coaching- i.e. no need for one more person in a box.
3. ROF limitations- ideally no ramping, but now is the time for open discussion on this topic.

 

[Chicago]

Xball is the be-all and end-all. Your first mistake is evaluating XBall in the context of national circuits only. Anywhere other than national circuits, where you're NOT paying airfare for every player, XBall kicks 7-man's ass.

Your second mistake is evaluating the costs of XBall based on NXL/Open format XBall. Even at the national level, PSP addressed the cost issue with XBall Lite. It's the same or expensive than 7-man and you get to play more. (Same number of bodies, lower entry fee, more field time.)

And even if XBall costs a bit more(which I don't think it does), you also get to play two or three times as much.

 

[Beaker]

Xball is the be-all and end-all. Your first mistake is evaluating XBall in the context of national circuits only. Anywhere other than national circuits, where you're NOT paying airfare for every player, XBall kicks 7-man's ass.

Your second mistake is evaluating the costs of XBall based on NXL/Open format XBall. Even at the national level, PSP addressed the cost issue with XBall Lite. It's the same or expensive than 7-man and you get to play more. (Same number of bodies, lower entry fee, more field time.)

And even if XBall costs a bit more(which I don't think it does), you also get to play two or three times as much.

I always thought that 7-man was a lot cheaper to run for organisers?

i.e. you can get more teams per field, lowering costs or increasing revenue, depending on your POV.

Is that right?

 

[Missy-Q]

Xball is the be-all and end-all. .

You're out of your tiny mind.

 

[Missy-Q]

I always thought that 7-man was a lot cheaper to run for organisers?

i.e. you can get more teams per field, lowering costs or increasing revenue, depending on your POV.

Is that right?

yes. It's basically cheaper for everyone. It isn't actually possible to say that you get more game time, and that it's also cheaper. Those 2 things don't marry up.
The more times you play, the more paint you shoot. Xball is designed to get people to play continuously with multiple lives (points) which means they shoot a lot more paint.

With ethe Canadian Dollar now being equal to the US dollar (a US dollar was worth 1.6/7 Canadian just 2 years ago), and most paint being manufactured in Canada, the paint prices are about to go up, which in turn, will mean the price of paintball will go up, and Xball will become comparitably even more expensive.
While Chicago quotes rising PSP participation, he is limiting his info to the past 5-6 months. Not a cross-section of business that any reasonable decision should or would be made on.

personally I don't give a toss, but misinformation leads to bad decision-making...

 

[Chicago]

I find the last 5-6 months a lot more interesting than 2 years ago, but for what it's worth, there's been a steady increase for PSP going back to 2004. Hell, just look at Cup this year, it's looking like PSP is going to sell out 120 XBall teams by the end of next week with tons of demand on top of that.


As for XBall vs. 7-man, I've spent a LOT of time analyzing the relative costs, and I have a LOT of guys on my team that have all done budgets for both XBall and 7-man and 5-man and they've all come to the conclusion that XBall is at most marginally more expensive but definitely brings incredibly more value for the player's dollar than the other formats.

The price difference is especially not very significant at the national level - you have to start a day early, which adds an extra day of staffing costs, but that's fairly minor when you consider the portion of the total event costs devoted to having refs and grounds crew for an extra day. You don't have to build any more fields, for example. You also get some of that back by being able to run 5-man on the weekend. All in all, it's a bit more expensive, but revenue from teams for PSP is higher, and the number of players at a PSP event is higher as well.

It's also not more expensive for the players on a per-player basis for full-on XBall, nor on a per-team basis for XLite. Yes, if you play more, you shoot more paint, but paint is also such a small percentage of event cost when you factor in airfare, hotel, rental car, entry fee, etc, that once you've paid $500 to be there, if you can pay $100 more (xtra day hotel, rental car, food, and a case of paint) to double your play time, you'd be an idiot to not pay it.

Remember, total expense and VALUE are not necessarily the same thing. XBall may be slightly more expensive (a little more paint, some more staffing costs) but you get a LOT more bang for that buck. People are going to these events to actually PLAY paintball, right?

 

[Buddha 3]

People are going to these events to actually PLAY paintball, right?

I don't want top get into all the business chat, as I find it's getting quite boring with one person saying this, and the people that actually work in the business saying that, after which the discussion goes round in circles until everybody's bored and dizzy, I want to comment on the above.

I doubt people go to the events to play. At least, not everybody, not even the majority.
Many "players" go to the big events for the atmosphere and to act like rock stars and strut their latest agg style.

It has always amazed me that people dish out stupendous amounts of money (particularly when you convert days offwork into their corresponding monetary values as well), just to play for less than an hour and just parade around the grounds, acting like retards.

If it's pure bang for the buck people wanted, there'd be no moaning about events being in the middle of nowhere, rather than next to some stadium.

While I'm sure that those who approach the game like true athletes do indeed agree with what Chris just posted, the main income for the big events comes from people who just want to act like a celeb for a weekend.

Chris, while I respect your stubborness (even though I may not always agree with you) when it comes to defending your corner, I'd like to point out that not every paintballer is the same and plays for the same reasons. Which is something you often tend to forget in your arguments. You have a very black and white approach, while we live in a shades of grey world.



Anyway, back to your boring economic banter boys! (I'm a business economics major, and I'm still bored by this thread.....)