Campaign......the verdict?

[Fat-Frank]

Level of play

I would just like to say my personal opinion on this debate
First of all, i have not been to the states this year, just watched films.
My last apperence in US was at World Cup. My opinion is based on X-ball /M7, since i haven`t played 7 man in a couple of years. (and i exxept JOY)

If you compare European teams to NXL, i think we are loosing ground and would struggled alot on that level. On a teqhnical level there is many players in Europe that can compare to US level, but as teams we lack the experience they have got during all the years playing Xball on a high level, both in tournament and practice/scrimmage.
I beleive you can just get to a certain level with good techniqe, as long as you don`t get the experience by constantly playing good teams.

We (Menace) struggle as a team to get good competition, and get stuck with playing ourselves. We do a lot of drills, conditioning etc. and have improved a lot on personal skills, but still miss playing real good teams on a permanent basis.
This keeps us from taking the step to the next level. Of course we could go to our neighbour country and practice with Joy, and so we do, once and a while, but this brings us to the next obstacle, financees. The definition for PRO teams has been debated several times, but for us, the real story is that the players still pay money to play. Not so much as (most of) the lower division teams (been there, done that) but still a fair share.

I beleive we (CPL) are on the level below NXL, but there is a way to go to get to the NXL level. (If we will ever get there, but that is another debate)

European teams are also stopping their own development by bringing in 1,2 or 3 players to play in tournaments only. This means you have to bench your local players, that practice all year, and they don`t get the experience they need & in the end they will probably quit. By the system we have now they are also locked in one team, and can`t play for other teams in lower divisions either........

I play to be the best i can get, and really enjoy playing the best teams, which in the end gives you the best experience.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[ollyclio]

RatTV's view....

 

[Bunkerkidz]

I would just like to say my personal opinion on this debate
First of all, i have not been to the states this year, just watched films.
My last apperence in US was at World Cup. My opinion is based on X-ball /M7, since i haven`t played 7 man in a couple of years. (and i exxept JOY)

If you compare European teams to NXL, i think we are loosing ground and would struggled alot on that level. On a teqhnical level there is many players in Europe that can compare to US level, but as teams we lack the experience they have got during all the years playing Xball on a high level, both in tournament and practice/scrimmage.
I beleive you can just get to a certain level with good techniqe, as long as you don`t get the experience by constantly playing good teams.

We (Menace) struggle as a team to get good competition, and get stuck with playing ourselves. We do a lot of drills, conditioning etc. and have improved a lot on personal skills, but still miss playing real good teams on a permanent basis.
This keeps us from taking the step to the next level. Of course we could go to our neighbour country and practice with Joy, and so we do, once and a while, but this brings us to the next obstacle, financees. The definition for PRO teams has been debated several times, but for us, the real story is that the players still pay money to play. Not so much as (most of) the lower division teams (been there, done that) but still a fair share.

I beleive we (CPL) are on the level below NXL, but there is a way to go to get to the NXL level. (If we will ever get there, but that is another debate)

European teams are also stopping their own development by bringing in 1,2 or 3 players to play in tournaments only. This means you have to bench your local players, that practice all year, and they don`t get the experience they need & in the end they will probably quit. By the system we have now they are also locked in one team, and can`t play for other teams in lower divisions either........

I play to be the best i can get, and really enjoy playing the best teams, which in the end gives you the best experience.

Just my humble opinion.

My hero.

I completely agree, I just think that bringing in US guests with alot more experience is something that can hugely benefit a team and make them better, if you bring them along for the right reasons, not just to help boost your ranking in the league by bringing in ringers, but to actually learn from them and get some of the experience they have.

We (Paintoon) face many of the same challenges as you do, except we don't even have Joy nearby.

 

[Lump]

RatTV's view....

LOL

 

[Echowitch]

I know how to beat them and maybe I could even put the resources together to do so but I haven't got the inclination anymore after what happened with Nexus toward the end.

It's not rocket science in putting that package together, it requires someone who knows what they are doing at the very top end of our sport, somebody who can command sufficient resources to enable weekly team practice (minimum), individuals though would need to practice drills at home during the week, and basically that's it.

FFS I put together a team of predominantly ams and novices in 2003 and got to 7th ranked in the world in that first year, the only thing that prevented us from improving on that was the mentality of some of the squad players who believed their own hype and stopped listening.
But maybe that was my failing as well by not weeding them out earlier, who knows?

But all this talk is somewhat academic because there are soo many obstacles in doing it now, and anyway, the UK does not play host to anybody now who possesses the connections and expertise, so maybe all this talk is just that, talk.

And a great achievement it was as well Robbo, what you did with Nexus, and its certainly put them in the loved position that they are now, (despite any prior problems.) Hell they are Internationally loved as I know as their International fanclub were bringing the noise 4 seats across from me on sunday

So basically three things then ?

1. Knowing what to do and rinse and repeating it until you do it in your sleep, and snapshoot round corners in Sainsbury's scaring old grannies hunting for tins of pea's.
2. Have the will to push yourself further even when its chucking it down with rain, or you are suffering from a curry induced ring of fire
3. Finding the money/sponsers to assist in getting to the top of your game from practice practice and yet more practice

And maybe a 4th of not letting ego's get in the way, and reminding the team that they are that. A Team, not a bunch of superstars who can go it alone, but a team that needs to work together.

I honestly don't know how many teams the big companies, (Dye, Angel, Eclipse, etc,) support, but maybe if they could be persuaded to at least look at supporting one main team per country per company then we could get enough pro-level supported teams with the pressure of those big companies to ensure that they get up at stupid o'clock to practice, that we could get a European level league. Maybe even charge (a sensible amount...fiver or a tenner,) to go and watch the events so as to work towards financing the league and teams.

But that's just my opinion and random thoughts Maybe its a pipe dream because I haven't been in the tournament side of paintball for all that long, and I've yet to become disillusioned by the closeness of the break in to the big time I keep hearing people talk about. (Im sure it will come, we just need to push for it)

 

[stongle]

The Millennium is not JUST about CPL, what about all the lowly Div1,2 and M5 teams in attendence? Without these teams there would be no event and no CPL. Whilst I'm not denying that a top league should exist where the very few (and it is a few) Euro teams whom take it seriously can play, I really don't feel this to be relevent to the majority of players there or rather the "customers" the Millennium should be catering too.

You see Customers is the key word here. The Word of Nick is only really appropriate to the few or the very deluded (you know the players whom are "pro" sportsmen training week in and out, or the ones whom promised to pack out NQ, Fireball gym etc ). The rest are there to play and have a good time (hence emphasis on Players Party and booze). The reason there was little atmosphere around the CPL fields is a lot don't actually care.

No matter how many ways you cut it, paintball is a participation event, ergo the CPL is just a sideshow to the majority paying a LOT of money to play. The main priority for the promoters should be getting the experience right for these player. Listen to the minority and deluded too much and you soon realise exactly how quick the path is from delusion to apathy (and bye bye customers). There was a lot of new youngsters playing, but a lot more noticable missing faces, and Mark's well on the money here. Too much emphasis on prentending to be a sport and emulating the Americans which is only appropriate to Nick and 73 others in the whole of Europe (and f**k me there were more players in Div2, just), is alienating a lot of the customer base.

Obviously a lot of thought went into the food and bar eyc, but the biggest disappointment is the split between 7 man and M5. The 7 man teams are getting raped for value, just give everyone 5 man and guaranteed 10 or 12 games at a reasonable price. 1100+ EUR's for 20 mins paintball? 120 quid each! Get frikkin real, I got 90 mins in the VIP lounge in a Vegas strip joint for that. If everyone plays the same at a reasonable price, Campaign would have been banged out. There would have been atmosphere in spades, and players parties on Fri, Sat and Sunday night. Being dumped out of the competition on the Saturday should be the norm, bring on Milf-o-rama at Chicago's. Aside from the slap on the face (she really did have nice bangers), a quality night.

We're not ready to sustain a true Paintball sporting event in Europe and you've got little longevity or retention of custom. The Millennium has to cater to a broader base and keep people coming back year on year. I think they have tried hard, but they're listening to the minority too much. Bring in more players, make the divisions wide open (yes the locked divisions help the "elite" but everyone else???), make it represent good value and the playes will come. Hell maybe even consider how you get some Rec teams involved. This way you get a festival atmosphere like how I remember Toulouse and early Campaigns. If the playing of paintball is good (win or loose), the party, food and beer just help make a great experience.

In short, their trying but the paintball formula ain't right yet.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

The Millennium is not JUST about CPL, what about all the lowly Div1,2 and M5 teams in attendence? ............................bla bla bla bla bla.............. In short, their trying but the paintball formula ain't right yet.

Who ever pretended it was JUST about the CPL?

And why do you believe the solution to one problem, by default creates another?

I certainly believe that the best possible solution, is one that drives European paintball towards becoming a real sport, all the way down through the divisions.

- Americans usually have the outlook on sports, that you are either professional - or it is not sport.

Europe is very different, and a great many people in every country's population, view sports as an important part of their lives (and I'm not talking about watching it from the sofa - but actually doing it).

I think you would have a hard time getting a majority for european paintball events changing from a sporting event image, to an festival one...... and I think if you look at most of the teams participating, they have ambitions that go beyond just having fun.

British paintball may be the notable exception (???), but I cannot think of a single scandinavian, german, french or eastern european team, that enters a MS event "just for fun".

BTW - I recent you trying to make me to posterboy for alienating the lower divisions - I have said nothing to that effect.

Nick

 

[Mario]

Is whats right for america, right for europe?

Didn't many of these "extreme" sports renaissance' start in what were typically festivals? Rock concert at one side, vert ramps, dirt tracks etc elsewhere on the compound. You can have sporting events at a festival type scenario. It doesn't make the event any less credible.

Im not saying the MS needs to start having rock concerts but what Glen says has a lot of truth to it. It needs to be a spectacle to attract the lower teams who essentially pay for the "pro's" to play. It needs to be value for money, which it currently isn't, to attract these teams. CPL/SPL is honestly a sideshow. Thats it. No more, No less. The real event is the lower divisions.

 

[Robbo]

British paintball may be the notable exception (???), but I cannot think of a single scandinavian, german, french or eastern european team, that enters a MS event "just for fun".

Nick

Nick, I swear I am not trying to pick an argument here (I actually get quite bored of winning them anyway )but do you really believe all these non Brit Europeans enter the MS for the competition alone and enjoyment isn't a huge factor, if not the major one?

 

[Freddie Brockdorff]

Nick, I swear I am not trying to pick an argument here (I actually get quite bored of winning them anyway )but do you really believe all these non Brit Europeans enter the MS for the competition alone and enjoyment isn't a huge factor, if not the major one?

Dammit - why do I get into this hehehehe?

Well there´s the "just for fun" teams, the "strictly competition" teams.... and then there´s those that like having fun - while they win!!!!

So yeah anyway - I would actually think Nick is right here, NO team I know of enter a millennium strictly to have fun - but they do of course like having fun while winning games.... but Winning IS still a greater factor than having fun!

So to reply you directly - of course enjoyment is a huge factor, but isn´t winning indeed more fun than loosing?