Campaign......the verdict?

[Kraazon]

To be honest really, say next CC, things will improve but other things will get worse. It is highly unlikely that everything can be perfect and the perfect venue can be found. I suppose its possible but highly unlikely and at the end of the day players go to play and spectators go to watch and we get what we went there for, its just never going to be perfect.

 

[Robbo]

Robbo

What is worrying is that there is an undercurrent of dissatisfaction. The players arent leaving in droves...yet.

We never used to see these threads loaded with dissent.

Is the plaster patch that this year seems to have acheived enough?

For my part I think thay put is huge effort but something is missing, the spark if you will.

No real yank presence, smaller fields, shorter games, fewer games, ramping; high cost; all have built up and dissafected a large number of players.

And why is the standard so low?

Mark, one of the points you bring up is a crucial one and that is one of Yank presence and I think we are gonna have to rethink this but we have to appreciate why we ended up where we are in the first place.
We chose to lock our divisions because we wanted to emulate what was going on Stateside, create a European League (ha ha) and for many other reasons.

Well that's fine but I'm afraid the landscape has drastically changed and we need to respond to that.
A few months back, (no names mentioned) there was talk shall we say of setting up a new series in Europe.
One of the points that was made to me was that they have a huge advantage over the Millennium in being able to attract the Yanks if they were to hold a Euro event.
I hadn't really thought about this before and the more I thought about the more sense it makes.
We really do need to have some form of American participation and I ain't talking about seconding them into the Euro teams, that's just counter-productive and may help the team in question but does little for European paintball.

I know a lot of people over here will cry blue murder if we were ever to go back to the old days of open competition but I'm afraid, the times have changed so much in terms of industry position and talent disparity that we need to look again at what’s going on.
I have changed my opinion on this since I have witnessed the disparity between Euro ball and Stateside ball, we really are getting left soo far behind.
I realize the people who might resist a change like this will be wanting to be a big fish in a small pond mentality but hey, ‘bollocks’ to them is what I say, I want what’s best for us, both team, vendor and event organiser. The yank teams give us that certain edge, and maybe responsible for that atmosphere we continually hark on about.
We have to make a stark choice and that is between going down a European road which will most definitely have the effect of reducing us to second class abilities or maybe sacrificing the locked league system and getting back that Yank edge and participation.. we need them, just like the Premier needs Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool and Chelsea…. without them, it means little.
And it is undeniable that although the remainder of the league will generally end up from 5th downwards, the level of play has been raised because of the top 4.

I think we need to start a new thread on this topic so I will do just that:-

Go here if you would like to comment on this subject:

http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=898485#post898485

 

[Scottya]

Mark, one of the points you bring up is a crucial one and that is one of Yank presence and I think we are gonna have to rethink this but we have to appreciate why we ended up where we are in the first place.
We chose to lock our divisions because we wanted to emulate what was going on Stateside, create a European League (ha ha) and for many other reasons.

Well that's fine but I'm afraid the landscape has drastically changed and we need to respond to that.
A few months back, (no names mentioned) there was talk shall we say of setting up a new series in Europe.
One of the points that was made to me was that they have a huge advantage over the Millennium in being able to attract the Yanks if they were to hold a Euro event.
I hadn't really thought about this before and the more I thought about the more sense it makes.
We really do need to have some form of American participation and I ain't talking about seconding them into the Euro teams, that's just counter-productive and may help the team in question but does little for European paintball.

I know a lot of people over here will cry blue murder if we were ever to go back to the old days of open competition but I'm afraid, the times have changed so much in terms of industry position and talent disparity that we need to look again at what’s going on.
I have changed my opinion on this since I have witnessed the disparity between Euro ball and Stateside ball, we really are getting left soo far behind.
I realize the people who might resist a change like this will be wanting to be a big fish in a small pond mentality but hey, ‘bollocks’ to them is what I say, I want what’s best for us, both team, vendor and event organiser. The yank teams give us that certain edge, and maybe responsible for that atmosphere we continually hark on about.
We have to make a stark choice and that is between going down a European road which will most definitely have the effect of reducing us to second class abilities or maybe sacrificing the locked league system and getting back that Yank edge and participation.. we need them, just like the Premier needs Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool and Chelsea…. without them, it means little.
And it is undeniable that although the remainder of the league will generally end up from 5th downwards, the level of play has been raised because of the top 4.

I think we need to start a new thread on this topic so I will do just that and copy this post accordingly,

I agree, as the saying goes, the Brits invent the stuff, and the yanks make it bigger.

 

[spangley_special]

'spose if milleniums were to allow more US teams to make the trip over , we'd have a couple of seasons of yank dominance and then the european teams would be forced to up their game in order to compete

 

[Robbo]

'spose if milleniums were to allow more US teams to make the trip over , we'd have a couple of seasons of yank dominance and then the european teams would be forced to up their game in order to compete

At least in this way, we have a chance but as it stands, our present league lock system will most definitely work against us and we can NEVER be competitive if we continue down this road, NEVER.

 

[Freddie Brockdorff]

Maybe it was a one-off, BUT how exactly did the only all-american team do this weekend???

I know you are talking in general here, and yeah in general most US-teams are better than most european (please note the "most") - but we (Europe) are in fact getting there, I honestly do believe so - Ignition did beat those americans fair and square and that without having ANY guest players, big ups to them they played a fantastic game!

I do believe that lock or no lock we will see a couple of american teams buying their way in (as has happend already), I actually don´t see a reason to change it right now? Let it be this season and the next one and let´s see how we then stand.... Honestly I think more and more american teams will take the trip over - perhaps doing it like the Philly Dogs and join forces in order to be able to play a full season in both the US and Europe.

So anyway - what did I think of this years Campaign? Hmmm.... What concerns the atmosphere I actually think it was one of the worst I have experienced!!!!

The stands were just way too far from the SPL/CPL field unfortunately - you could see some players on the field, but honestly not much more than that - I do know it was difficult due to the running track! AND the commentating - well what were they babbling on about? You couldn´t hear half they were saying anyway, so why even bother?

The spectators HAVE to be upfront and close to the players/games and there NEEDS to be a good commentator - able to get the crowd going, that certainly wasn´t the case this weekend!

The structure itself was alright I think - did already mention the whole "walking an extra mile around the venue to get to the entrance" thingy, and the people responsible KNOW it was not optimal, so let´s not mention that hehe - it was promised to be different next time, IF we are gonna be back in Basildon again!

Food - everything has been said really.... The pasta and Pimm´s was good though!

All in all DEFINATELY way better than last years Campaign no doubt, but not the best this year so far - still a really descent tournament though! Nothing huge that needs to be changed/fixed for next year really - spectators closer to the main fields, better commentating, a bit more various food and shorter walking distance from the entrance itself hehe that´s it!

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

At least in this way, we have a chance but as it stands, our present league lock system will most definitely work against us and we can NEVER be competitive if we continue down this road, NEVER.

There is also the added factor that teams will attend just to watch the yanks playing.

This is 'added value' making their investment in attending, paying and playing for lower order honours (or not as the case may be) worthwhile.

When I think back when Avalanche first did it regularly, then Dynasty as well as various others - the excitment when they played off was palpable. Everyone used to scan the schedules for games involving those teams. The players would play their session and be glued to the various matches the rest of the time.

Its a win-win situation. Europe gets better and the lower div players get to see the big boys playing!

 

[Robbo]

Maybe it was a one-off, BUT how exactly did the only all-american team do this weekend???

Freddie, come on gal, you gotta do better than that, are you seriously suggesting that this one off result from the Philly Americans/Dogs is representative of the American qulaity of play?..if you are not and therefore flagging this up as a 'one off' then there was no reason to even mention it, either way you are cooked !!! .....now my face is gonna go but this time the expression is appropriate

Basically, we can't afford to allow this system to restrict the flow of American teams in our events, we need as many as we can and as soon as we can.

 

[Robbo]

There is also the added factor that teams will attend just to watch the yanks playing.

This is 'added value' making their investment in attending, paying and playing for lower order honours (or not as the case may be) worthwhile.

When I think back when Avalanche first did it regularly, then Dynasty as well as various others - the excitment when they played off was palpable. Everyone used to scan the schedules for games involving those teams. The players would play their session and be glued to the various matches the rest of the time.

Its a win-win situation. Europe gets better and the lower div players get to see the big boys playing!

I agree Mark, there are a whole raft of reasons why it's better we have Yank teams in attendance and I'm afraid the defeneders of keeping the way it is now are merely indulging in parochialism and not seeing the big picture at all.

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Freddie, come on gal, you gotta do better than that, are you seriously suggesting that this one off result from the Philly Americans/Dogs is representative of the American qulaity of play?..if you are not and therefore flagging this up as a 'one off' then there was no reason to even mention it, either way you are cooked !!! .....now my face is gonna go but this time the expression is appropriate.

And not only that but I hear they werent too happy with the judging. From the sidelines it looked like they got shafted on a number of occasions I am told.

Has Graham Easton got the inside on that?