So what exactly are you gonna resell here? And how would you get that something without the VAT in the first place?!
Millennium entry fee up xx%
- Thread starter agge
- Start date
Nothing, because the margins are not wide enough (17.5%-16% leaves little room for a profit, hence my firstSo what exactly are you gonna resell here? And how would you get that something without the VAT in the first place?!
).You can buy stuff in a CE country and get billed without VAT if you are a corporation and get some papers done with your tax agency. Those goods will be taxed when you resell them. If there is a nice difference between taxes in market A and B you could use part of that difference to make a profit. Not the case... that part was a joke that is now completely spoiled and a reminder of why I chose computers and not stand-up comedy as a career path
OK, this is the deal – I had a long talk with Barry Fuggle of the Millennium and before I go any further, I just wanna make a couple of things clear.
Barry is an OK guy and there is no way he is gonna bullsh!t me because he knows I would find out eventually and then things become a lot more embarrassing,
I actually do trust Barry when he levels with me and so here’s the rough gist of what was said :-
The VAT addition to entry fees was bought about because, ongoing talks over the past few years with the VAT people had come to a point whereby they (the VAT people) had made it clear that entry fees had to have the tax added.
Since VAT is a European consideration, the Millennium guys had to elect a host nation to charge and since the UK has one of the lowest rates (this is what I was told coz I don’t know the VAT rates of other countries) then they elected the UK to do the charging.
This causes the following problems and solutions: all non UK teams can apparently offset the VAT if they get a recognised non UK business (sponsor) to pay the entry fee, then I think in this case the entry fee would be VAT exempt because it is a European VAT.
However this is not the case for UK teams / businesses as they have to pay the VAT first and then claim it back afterwards.
But this can only be done if the company who is VAT registered (sponsor) pays the entry fee (and then claims it back afterwards on their returns).
Of course, if any of the Millennium teams cannot get a recognised business/sponsor to pay (or at least go on paper as paying) the entry fee then teams will have to pay the extra VAT tax.
If this is not clear, hard luck, coz I ain’t gonna explain it again
Ok, now this is the explanation of why there is an added VAT charge and in this case, I think the Millennium guys are above board and doing everything right.
However, we are now left with the problem of timing and Ulrich.
I will deal with timing first, Barry apologises wholeheartedly for the timing and of course the inconvenience it caused the teams, I believe his apology was genuine.
But, he did add, the announcement could have and should have been made 2 weeks earlier had it not been for our old friend Ulrich in delaying announcements because of some details that he thought needed to be clarified.
In reality, the announcement could have and should have been made two weeks earlier and thus teams would have not been so inconvenienced.
I then discussed Ulrich with Barry and made the point that Ulrich should never have had a say in the timing, he should also never have been the guy to tell the teams after the problems everybody has had before with him, and Ulrich should never have taken that attitude with the Millennium’s customers.
I made the point that Agge is a cool guy and not prone to be a hothead, and for Ulrich to infuriate Agge to the point he did just reinforced everything I, and others had been saying about ulrich over the past few years.
Barry wholeheartedly accepted my points, he also acknowledges a lot of other people have the same point of view as me, he 100% accepts his customer base should never be made to feel like Agge and in future, the guy who runs the Bitburg event (not Manfred, some other German guy, whose name escapes me) will be getting more involved in interfacing the Millennium board with its customer base …. Make of that what you will but I know how I am gonna read that.
In conclusion, it surprised me that this happened because the Millennium guys had been making significant strides in tidying up their act buit ..... allowing ulrich to do what he did was a big mistake, especially since this is not the first time he has done this.
As for ulrich’s future?
Well if I was on that board, his dismissal would be number one on my agenda but I ain’t and therefore only you guys can apply any pressure and you can only do that, if you get your collective finger out your collective ass.
As for the Millennium guys?
Well pedro’s now been marginalised and I think the rest of them (Barry, Steve, Manfred and Laurent) are at least (in my opinion) trying to do the right thing in the right way, this little event was hopefully a hiccup.
Barry is an OK guy and there is no way he is gonna bullsh!t me because he knows I would find out eventually and then things become a lot more embarrassing,
I actually do trust Barry when he levels with me and so here’s the rough gist of what was said :-
The VAT addition to entry fees was bought about because, ongoing talks over the past few years with the VAT people had come to a point whereby they (the VAT people) had made it clear that entry fees had to have the tax added.
Since VAT is a European consideration, the Millennium guys had to elect a host nation to charge and since the UK has one of the lowest rates (this is what I was told coz I don’t know the VAT rates of other countries) then they elected the UK to do the charging.
This causes the following problems and solutions: all non UK teams can apparently offset the VAT if they get a recognised non UK business (sponsor) to pay the entry fee, then I think in this case the entry fee would be VAT exempt because it is a European VAT.
However this is not the case for UK teams / businesses as they have to pay the VAT first and then claim it back afterwards.
But this can only be done if the company who is VAT registered (sponsor) pays the entry fee (and then claims it back afterwards on their returns).
Of course, if any of the Millennium teams cannot get a recognised business/sponsor to pay (or at least go on paper as paying) the entry fee then teams will have to pay the extra VAT tax.
If this is not clear, hard luck, coz I ain’t gonna explain it again
Ok, now this is the explanation of why there is an added VAT charge and in this case, I think the Millennium guys are above board and doing everything right.
However, we are now left with the problem of timing and Ulrich.
I will deal with timing first, Barry apologises wholeheartedly for the timing and of course the inconvenience it caused the teams, I believe his apology was genuine.
But, he did add, the announcement could have and should have been made 2 weeks earlier had it not been for our old friend Ulrich in delaying announcements because of some details that he thought needed to be clarified.
In reality, the announcement could have and should have been made two weeks earlier and thus teams would have not been so inconvenienced.
I then discussed Ulrich with Barry and made the point that Ulrich should never have had a say in the timing, he should also never have been the guy to tell the teams after the problems everybody has had before with him, and Ulrich should never have taken that attitude with the Millennium’s customers.
I made the point that Agge is a cool guy and not prone to be a hothead, and for Ulrich to infuriate Agge to the point he did just reinforced everything I, and others had been saying about ulrich over the past few years.
Barry wholeheartedly accepted my points, he also acknowledges a lot of other people have the same point of view as me, he 100% accepts his customer base should never be made to feel like Agge and in future, the guy who runs the Bitburg event (not Manfred, some other German guy, whose name escapes me) will be getting more involved in interfacing the Millennium board with its customer base …. Make of that what you will but I know how I am gonna read that.
In conclusion, it surprised me that this happened because the Millennium guys had been making significant strides in tidying up their act buit ..... allowing ulrich to do what he did was a big mistake, especially since this is not the first time he has done this.
As for ulrich’s future?
Well if I was on that board, his dismissal would be number one on my agenda but I ain’t and therefore only you guys can apply any pressure and you can only do that, if you get your collective finger out your collective ass.
As for the Millennium guys?
Well pedro’s now been marginalised and I think the rest of them (Barry, Steve, Manfred and Laurent) are at least (in my opinion) trying to do the right thing in the right way, this little event was hopefully a hiccup.
You guys should be careful - I think the purpose of the VAT credit to business purchases is that the business then resells whatever it is they bought, and the VAT then gets paid in that country.
I would be very surprised if you can claim a credit on something you buy and DO NOT resell, i.e., consume. Otherwise no businesses would pay VAT on anything ever, and everyone would set up their own little company to buy everything.
I would be very surprised if you can claim a credit on something you buy and DO NOT resell, i.e., consume. Otherwise no businesses would pay VAT on anything ever, and everyone would set up their own little company to buy everything.
This thread really helped to clarify some things for me. In the US, we have haters hating on the NPPL and PSP...usually its the players saying they are getting screwed or not taken into proper consideration, not given enough time, etc. etc. etc... There are certainly real concerns because clearly people are concerned about them.
But when I think about it, I see how much complaining goes on, even in the Millennium, which says to me it's the players who are being a little unreasonable and perhaps expect more than the league owners are able and willing to pay out. No matter where you look it's the players making demands and wanting more. That might piss some people off, but I'm not down playing your concerns....at least not unjustifiably so as I see it. Reminds me too much of the sense of entitlement that so many people in both our societies have.
Speaking of entitlements...maybe you can be happy knowing your extra taxes will go to pay for someone else's "benefit programs" that they "deserve" from their respective governments (which is just another way of saying from their neighboors pocket)....kind of ironic actually...
By the way, I can't even imagine that you conspiracy theorists could be so crazy to think a national league would publically announce they are collecting tax and not pay it. That thought right there shows me how unreasonable and how much you tend to err on the side of unreasonableness.
Yes, I'm an ass...and yes truth hearts.
But when I think about it, I see how much complaining goes on, even in the Millennium, which says to me it's the players who are being a little unreasonable and perhaps expect more than the league owners are able and willing to pay out. No matter where you look it's the players making demands and wanting more. That might piss some people off, but I'm not down playing your concerns....at least not unjustifiably so as I see it. Reminds me too much of the sense of entitlement that so many people in both our societies have.
Speaking of entitlements...maybe you can be happy knowing your extra taxes will go to pay for someone else's "benefit programs" that they "deserve" from their respective governments (which is just another way of saying from their neighboors pocket)....kind of ironic actually...
By the way, I can't even imagine that you conspiracy theorists could be so crazy to think a national league would publically announce they are collecting tax and not pay it. That thought right there shows me how unreasonable and how much you tend to err on the side of unreasonableness.
Yes, I'm an ass...and yes truth hearts.
When you say the 'the truth hurts', I take it you are referring to the fact you are an ass as against players not having a legitimate reason for complaining...
The only 'entitlement' that seems to be under discussion in this thread is for paying customers to be treated with respect and if you think the players / teams of the Millennium are merely indulging themselves in whining, then, you truly are an ass !!!!!
OK then why is it that when you look at the returns for the MILLENNIUM SERIES LIMITED you are unable to find them as all you get is Date Latest Accounts 31 December 2005. If you are going to start adding vat to anything or try and make your self look legitimate you need to be very open with your accounts and at least file something. That my little bit to this.
No i am not as this is a company that has been trading for some time under what ever name you should still be able to find out who does the accounting and what there trading status is and so on.