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Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
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Pete,
If you think the post was a promo exercise either on the line between the line or as you say the bottom line, you are wrong, if you read the post as one that is proud of what the PA is attempting to do for paintball well you would have been correct because I am correct in that we are not like the other bull**** merchants who all talk a good game and in actuality do sod all for the progression of what we play.
Well, you coulda fooled me Russ but hey, there are plenty of ways to wrap a present ain't there. I'm afraid I just don't buy this constant assertion that you alone are good and everybody else is bad.
Further on in your post you malign the Millennium, sure as sh!t they deserve some criticism but I didn't see much of you doing it when it needed to be done, I was at the front end of that cr@p many times giving it to the Millennium guys and so I have earned my stripes Russ.
I can however understand why you may not have so publicly condemned (during those times) the Millennium but ffs mate, I think I have played my game pretty straight in going for all the people who deserve it.
I will also take you to task in saying the Millennium guys have done fack all for paintball whilst raping the customer.
You are wrong !!
I know, for sure, a lot of the time, the Millennium did not make money, they plugged it back in mate.
I was privy to a lot of the stuff that went on with that series (not all but a fair bit) and those guys may not have gone about everything the right way but they gave us all the best paintball product in Europe (in terms of tourneys) and apart from Pedro, did it for the most part, for the right reasons.

I don’t think you are anti PA but in this case you are ill-informed, the people behind the PA are the most genuine people I know who unlike most others are not after a profit margin to buy a new house with, don’t get me wrong I don’t think for one second that a profit is wrong (I run my own business and pay out wages to ten people a week so I appreciate a profit margin) but please don’t mistake comments on the forums as bickering because others don’t throw rose petals in my path.
Well, it's not often I am ill-informed Russ but it's always a possibility I got no problem in entertaining but once again, you polarise yourself in having us believe all others are in it for the money and you (PA) ain't.
As I mentioned before, there are many ways to wrap a present .
And to add one more thing, you give me control of the PA with the income you guys generate and I will make a profit...a fackin nice one at that !


Many, people do what they think is a good thing for paintball and everyone of them will have their share of detractors for no other reason that they are there – take Steve Bull without Steve we may not even still be playing the game in this country without him but he has more than his share of unfair comments on these very boards from players who have second hand twisted information so I count that as good and decent company.
However you rightly say I should get over it, and that mate is the truth for sure, I do have a problem with some people but as you know the forums are not the place for that, and also if I could behave like the Billy and Adam I would not be the person I am, and I like me.
I got a lot of time for Steve and I have heard some of his detractors but I have to go with my gut instinct of the man and I think he's good for paintball.
But by identifying yourself with him merely because he has his critics mate is a little presumptuous to say the least.
Ignoring your critics isn't gonna change the 'fundamental' you Russ and so you can't really use that as an excuse for not changing.
I haven't yet matured to a point where I can ignore critics but I ain't making money from people or setting myself up as anything other than a mouthpiece.
All I do is comment, but that's my job.
Russ, ignore them and get on with it !

As for the tick a box option, well if that had gone the other way, we would have found out if I could have persuaded anyone, but the main point of the post was to make people aware of something that will introduce gun cheats back into the game after we had begun the process of eradicating a major concern.
All you would have found out Russ was the sterility of your assertion, it would have got nowhere, why do I say that?
I got no agendas either way on this, I know all the people concerned and I am fully aware of the political landscape you would have had to negotiate, you might as well have pissed in the sea for all the difference it would have made and you can't then try and validate your suggestion by introducing the 'Yeh but what if' factor ....... that ain't gonna cut no ice with me Russ.

I don’t take onboard your point about change will happen from the top down, dictatorships happen from the top down and I want no part of any of them, if someone is doing the wrong thing in paintball (as I see it of course) why would I want to align myself with them.
There has been many a dictator using the notion of socialist initiatives to drive their ideas forward. Come on Russ, you gotta do better than this mate if you wanna try and justify your ideas.

The Millenniums if I may use them as an example have milked the players of Europe dry for years (and I like most of the guys behind the scenes) for what, if you discount the French events very little public interest has ever been generated.
The players have always paid over the odds for what they get and I am not even counting the extra costs on top of the entry fees, but that in fact is completely academic. Whatever they want to charge they will get teams to play because they promote the perception a lot better than the actual event, something we have yet to learn.
I don't agree with this at all, they have certainly made mistakes, big ones and they continue to take the piss in certain areas but you cannot write them off as you have done with such remarks.
They continue to give us, the Euro baller, the biggest and best series there has been, no argument.
As to what price you put on that, I will let others argue but from my point of view, they have done a lot for paintball and to suggest otherwise smacks of agenda and ignorance.

About people politics, Hmmm, I do see your point and sadly have to concede you are correct it is not one of our strong points at this moment but learning to talk b0llocks to people you want to trust and getting told crap in return is something that is a bitter pill to swallow. But it is something we are learning.
FFS Russ, come off it mate, this is abject bollocks, I don't defer to these guys, I don't talk bollocks with them and I get on with them.
You know full well that I went for their nuts on a few occasions and got them to change their stance, I didn't defer to them or brown nose any of them and I got what I wanted and I did so because what I wanted was the right thing.

Maybe look at what you bring to the table and how you bring it rather than condemn the Millennium guys as intrainsigent power fereaks.
If you think all you have to do is talk sh!t and all of a sudden they start rolling over and letting you scratch their bellies then you got a lot to learn.
I don't play that game and I get on with the vast majority of people in our industry...doesn't that give you a clue as to how to act???

You are confusing people not agreeing with you with them expecting deferential behaviour. Just because people don't wanna play your game doesn't mean they are against you mate or are expecting you to turn tricks for them, they just don't wanna play, that's all.

The PA has recently began a partnership with a company they may help in the promotion of paintball and within a few days Syd from the SWPL and the Millenniums and others had been in touch with them telling them don’t work with the PA work with us. When I first was informed about the contacts that had been made I was to be honest very pissed, but after I had calmed down I just thought to myself feck ‘em, if we are doing things the right way we will keep our contacts no matter what anyone else says to them. (still think it’s a ****ty thing to do though)
So?...it's business, get over it, as you so eloquently put it, 'feck 'em' :)

You advise us to get help from the industry; I assure you we have tried but help from the industry is usually soft goods to a value and a load of bollocks on what they think you should be doing to get more teams to your events, advice we don’t need, we already know what we have to do to attain what we want and we do not need more teams to do it.
I along with the rest of the senior PA staff refuse to be beholding to anyone who is only looking at there own ability to make profit from our event, God bless Planet a company who supports our endeavour that if we eventually get to fruition, we believe will benefit everyone.
I have had lengthy talks with Ledz who in his own unique way has given me lots of advice and as you know when he gives you advice, its never bad and he told me take small steps and not try big leaps and I think you are giving me the same, so thank you.
But Pete, when I believe what we want to do WILL help EVERYONE including all the other organisers, small steps are not very appealing.
I have talked with Ledz a few times ont ihs subject and I know why he supports you guys and in this sense, he's a one off.
Ledz is extremely patriotic and a no nonsense guy, if that man gives you any sort of advice, then listen to it but if I were in your position I would be asking another question, a more pressing and relevant question, Why the fack is Ledz the only guy who seems to be supporting us'?
And when you answer that, it's not so much why he is but why the others ain't !
In your position, we can conclude a few things, the way it's being done isn't working (in terms of where you want it to go and the response you guys get from the industry) and so you need to go back to square one (in terms of self-appraisement)
As I said before, I think what you are trying to do is good for the sport and it's all about the way you do things and how you come across that seems to be the main problem.
The first thing to do is take a serious look at yourself and understand where your league is in the scheme of things, no bull, just get real mate.
Once you have that perspective, then list your ideals and aspirations and go for them, ignoring all the pratts and critics.
Russ, both you and Hatts, had allusions to grandeur and a misguided idea of where you were on the paintball atlas, this is not a diss, I am just telling you like it is.
Once you genuinely ground yourself in reality, you will have taken the first step to where you wanan go and with Ledzy's words of wisdom (and support) ringing in your ears, you will have a much better opportunity of achieving your goals.
 

Russell Smith

The Paintball Association
Well, it's not often I am ill-informed Russ but it's always a possibility I got no problem in entertaining but once again, you polarise yourself in having us believe all others are in it for the money and you (PA) ain't.
As I mentioned before, there are many ways to wrap a present .
And to add one more thing, you give me control of the PA with the income you guys generate and I will make a profit...a fackin nice one at that !
Pete,

Before I get time to make a full reply to your post I feel I should just cover this point about profit, besides the fact that we have lost money every season, and we would love someone else to help us if your offer is genuine - and a no loss season is desirable to say the least. So a fackin nice profit.........

Russ
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
Pete,

Before I get time to make a full reply to your post I feel I should just cover this point about profit, besides the fact that we have lost money every season, and we would love someone else to help us if your offer is genuine - and a no loss season is desirable to say the least. So a fackin nice profit.........

Russ


Russ, when it comes to making money outa paintball, Phil Webb from Smart Parts once described me as the 'biggest mug in paintball' and he's probbaly right.
Money doesn't, and has never really motivated me.
I mean, if you wanna give me a million quid, I won't turn it down but I don't go chasing it like it's some sort of god.
But I tell you this much, if you ain't making money out of the PA, then you really need to get new batteries for your calculator.
I ain't saying you are lying (I genuinely believe you are telling the truth) but I have heard a lot of people tell me they ain't making money outa paintball as they climb into their flash cars and drive back to their equally flash houses, so excuse me for being a tad cynical here.

And as for sorting out your financial problems just so's you can join the 'flash' brigade?
:) Yeah right, I think I have done my bit for Brit ball mate and 'helping out' lord knows how many people for fack all; my charity days are over !
 

Raffles

Going....going....not quite dead yet...
Jun 21, 2004
2,766
1
63
57
oldham - lancs
Raff, I wouldn't bother if I were you mate, you'd only end up getting yerself educated and so why spoil the habits of a life time :)
At least I can spell :p.

Besides - it's better than watching The Chuckle Brothers on The Weakest Link - just!

Why can't this be left at "Robbo and Russ are never going to agree - as neither are going to change their minds or stance"?

It's like watching a forum version of tennis - without caring who wins!

I wonder if Mikey has understood why a single league just won't work in the UK - well not at the moment?
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
At least I can spell :p.

Besides - it's better than watching The Chuckle Brothers on The Weakest Link - just!

Why can't this be left at "Robbo and Russ are never going to agree - as neither are going to change their minds or stance"?

It's like watching a forum version of tennis - without caring who wins!

I wonder if Mikey has understood why a single league just won't work in the UK - well not at the moment?

First off, 'yerself' isn't mispelled, it's meant to read like that, sorry, can't let ya have that one (notice 'ya').

Secondly, I haven't got a stance with Russ, I am just letting him know where he's gone wrong :)

As for Mikey601?
He's not really concerned with whether or not there is a single league or not, he's just concerned with getting his name out there so in that sense, he's more than happy :)
 

mikey601

F orum Battle Organiser
Nov 23, 2005
5,189
1
113
40
South Wales/Cali
www.myspace.com
First off, 'yerself' isn't mispelled, it's meant to read like that, sorry, can't let ya have that one (notice 'ya').

Secondly, I haven't got a stance with Russ, I am just letting him know where he's gone wrong :)

As for Mikey601?
He's not really concerned with whether or not there is a single league or not, he's just concerned with getting his name out there so in that sense, he's more than happy :)

Raff, he only thing i can see that wouldnt make a singular leaue in the uk work is, the players.

Oh and robbo, getting my name out there? Do you mean on p8ntballer or in the real world.........Robbo, Do you not know who i am?

:D
 

JoseDominguez

New cut and carved spine!
Oct 25, 2002
3,185
0
0
www.myspace.com
The main reason a single UK league won't work is paintballers.
If you took them out of the equation things would be sorted.
:D
I put a smiley for levity, but I don't mean it.





Oh, and complaining about things being mispelled is pretty close to the definition of irony.
Unless you are Harry Potter and you just screwed up a fireball.:D