Rec Sites With The Worst Reputation

[Kitch]

I as Robbo haven't been to a DF site, and I can only go by the customers we get through at Ambush who have been to DF, and for one reason or another decided to come to us. Their main gripes were unfriendly young staff, hardley any staff on the field and small game areas. As I said I havent been so can't really comment, but it would be interesting to know the ratio of marshals to players on field, perhaps Gups can shed some light on this.

I know that the UKPSF says 10 to 15 players per marshal, and I think I am right in saying that DF's 'governing' body says 15 players per marshal, but from what I have heard from the customers that it was more like 2 marshals for 40-50 of them, I know peoples memories get skewed over time, but thats certainly the impression they came away with, and it would explain the small field sizes that people where discussing.

 

[loosebree]

Re the Ticket sellers, lets put that into perspective too. Most complaints that hit these boards about IPG sellers go something along the lines of 'They didn't know anything about tourney paintball and didn't recognise the paintball clothing i was wearing'. Whether or not the ticket sellers know anything about tourney ball or recognise your Eclipse hoody means bugger all. They are selling tickets for a woodland, rental -only site and therefore only need to know what those sites have to offer. They don't masquerade as paintballers, they do what it says on the tin, sell tickets to a rental public.

My point was that wouldn't 'SOME' idea of how and what the game (Woodland or tourney) involes or how the games are played. Instead of how many nice hard working Mums or Dads can I get money out of today??

If your dig about the Eclipse hoody was aimed at me please read my post again..........I wrote 'NPF hoody' you know National Paintball Fields the place where woodland rental paintball is played!!

 

[Gups]

So many questions, lol!

The number of marshals to customers can vary from 1:10 to 1:25 on the rare occasion, but this is not the norm. i'd say 1:15-20 is the norm, 35-40 is an average game size at a weekend at most centres and we have 2 marshals on a game of this size. New marshals who are learning the ropes would go out as an extra pair of hands, so sometimes there are 3 marshals on a game.
When you are dealing with numbers like 250, 350 and 450 thru the gates and bearing in mind you can book up to the evening before a game, it only takes a marshal or two to call in sick, or a couple of big groups to book in the nite before and the planned marshal:customer ratios are out. We put the responsibility on the centre managers to try and get the balance right, although it's a hard job. As well as their normal salary, the DF managers are on a bonus scheme for getting lots of things right, one of which is getting their marshal ratios right. They lose bonus if they are either overstaffed OR UNDERSTAFFED. A time when centres suffer with marshal ratios is just after the summer holidays when there is a mass exodus of marshals to uni. Yes, a lot of our marshals are 18-20 yr olds. We do have many older marshals tho, some who have been there longer than i have. We have a structured salary scale to reward experience and length of service.

Robbo, you asked about Sup'Air. You know the answer to this and and i know where you're coming from, since we had this conversation by PM about 18 months back. But i'll state it here since that's what you want me to do:

No, none of our centres have Sup'Air training fields associated with them. The rental market is what we know and what we do best. We realise that people will only play rental for a while and then move onto walkons or tourney and there are places where they can go for that. (Just like our kids start in kindergarten and progress thru to uni, moving on for each stage of their development). I know of many marshals, including myself, who will point them to P8ntballer's tourney or recball sections to find out what's available.
I disagree with you that we have a duty, as you imply, to provide Sup'Air facilities for players who have progressed past playing rental. Let someone with the expertise necessary for their development be responsible for that.

Here's something that may surprise you all: About 18m ago my bosses asked me if i would arrange a Sup'air tournament on the scale of Campaign Cup. The intention was to give BIG cash prizes for ALL divisions and blow the myth out of the water that there is no profit to be made in tourney paintball. I was offered a year off my normal duties to 'go off and arrange it'. I thought about it for one evening then said 'Not interested'. Why is simple. Look at the hate and suspicion that comes our way from the rest of UK paintball. If i had arranged this there is no way it would have been welcomed by UK paintball. We would have been seen as a threat or at least that this was some plot to take over or destroy the tourney scene. Can you imagine the opposition that would have come my way! Much in the same way as DF were refused entry to the UKPSF because the members didn't want us in their club.

Having played tourney, and having got to know quite a few people in UK ball, i am of the opinion the the hierarchy behind it sucks*. Too much backstabbing goes on and the politics- Jeez, they make me sick! There's too much division and hate guys. Instead of looking at ways to bring others down, we should be looking at the good bits everyone has to offer and working together for the good of the game. IMO the politics is what stifles our game, not the fact that DF don't offer Sup'Air facilities!

EDIT: * Not a reference to you personally Robbo, before you get all 'Grrrrr' with me again

 

[Gups]

If your dig about the Eclipse hoody was aimed at me please read my post again..........I wrote 'NPF hoody' you know National Paintball Fields the place where woodland rental paintball is played!!

Nope, no dig intended, which is why i carefully chose Eclipse hoody and not NPF hoody.... You are only the latest of many many people to make reference to the fact that the IPG ticket sellers don't recognise paintball clothing.

IPG sellers all go to their local DF Centres to play paintball so they can see first hand how the day operates, but no, they wouldn't need to know anything about NPF's set up.

Anyhoo...off to the in-laws for dinner now, so see y'all L8rs xx

 

[loosebree]

Nope, no dig intended, which is why i carefully chose Eclipse hoody and not NPF hoody.... You are only the latest of many many people to make reference to the fact that the IPG ticket sellers don't recognise paintball clothing.

IPG sellers all go to their local DF Centres to play paintball so they can see first hand how the day operates, but no, they wouldn't need to know anything about NPF's set up.

Anyhoo...off to the in-laws for dinner now, so see y'all L8rs xx

My Eclipse hoody was in the wash!!!!!

 

[onasilverbike]

600+ sorry, just going on what I was told by a guy who was offered a job there! Maybe it was 600+ per weekend, sorry, haven't got him here to ask

Whatever, it is a serious number of punters, to be honest, I do most of the punter days organised within my company and from my experience of these the average punter is more interested in scenario fields than in speed/hypeball or Sup Air type games (even when I get them organised and kicking butts on these fields).

 

[Shadlad]

Gups glad to see you follow the UKPSF guide lines for marshals. Oh sorry I forgot your not members are you ? So it is do what you want or follow the UKPSA or what ever you made up.

 

[Robbo]

Robbo, you asked about Sup'Air. You know the answer to this and and i know where you're coming from, since we had this conversation by PM about 18 months back. But i'll state it here since that's what you want me to do:

made in tourney paintball. I was offered a year off my normal duties to 'go off and arrange it'. I thought about it for one evening then said 'Not interested'. Why is simple. Look at the hate and suspicion that comes our way from the rest of UK paintball. If i had arranged this there is no way it would have been welcomed by UK paintball. We would have been seen as a threat or at least that this was some plot to take over or destroy the tourney scene. Can you imagine the opposition that would have come my way! Much in the same way as DF were refused entry to the UKPSF because the members didn't want us in their club.

Having played tourney, and having got to know quite a few people in UK ball, i am of the opinion the the hierarchy behind it sucks*. Too much backstabbing goes on and the politics- Jeez, they make me sick! There's too much division and hate guys. Instead of looking at ways to bring others down, we should be looking at the good bits everyone has to offer and working together for the good of the game. IMO the politics is what stifles our game, not the fact that DF don't offer Sup'Air facilities!

EDIT: * Not a reference to you personally Robbo, before you get all 'Grrrrr' with me again

Actually I didn't know the answer to my question and maybe you did tell me before but the fact it was 18 months ago and not minutes may account for me not remembering

I don't hold or expect df to be responsible for any development of our sport, no more than any other site owner in the UK, all they (and most else) are interested in is squeezing the maximum amount of cash (note the word cash) from punters and running to the bank with it all, well some of it anyway.

I'm afraid I just don't believe the figures being presented by yourself, and I don't think these figures from you are deliberately misleading, I just think you have been fed them.
Some of them are true but in my opinion, not all.
If you aren't being fed them and they are valid, then somebody is making sooooooo much money it defies belief, and before you say anything regarding my ability to do maths, to have never owned a site or have no idea of site expenditure, I can own up to being reasonably adept at mathematics, once owning a site (Sittingbourne) and also quite aware of site expenditure.

Owning and running a site isn't rocket science Gups, it's quite easy, nothing too intellectual going on at all.
It's an attractive business to get into because of the cash nature and as is generally acknowledged, for the most part, attracts a certain 'type'.
Very few sites are run professionally but a lot of sites make money, sound like a contradiction?
If it does, then you really don't understand what i am saying


As for your appraisal of paintball's hierarchy over here sucking, well you won't get no arguments from me on that one gal but I am afraid politics is merely just another obstacle you have to get over.
If you really want something in this sport then you have to go for it regardless.

People are easily put off if they wanan be put off, Laurent wanted to change the face of paintball by bringing in Sup Air when the whole of paintball was set up differently and against him......he went for it......the rest is history.
I think I'll butt out of this now anyway because a lot of this talk is academic because we haven't got verifiable facts and figures to refer to, all we got is hearsay and bull as far as I am concerned and I don't think we will ever get reliable figures for obvious reasons and perhaps that hints at one of our very real problems within our site ownership demographic.

Have a good new year Gups !

 

[Flint]

The number of marshals to customers can vary from 1:10 to 1:25 on the rare occasion, but this is not the norm. i'd say 1:15-20 is the norm, 35-40 is an average game size at a weekend at most centres and we have 2 marshals on a game of this size. New marshals who are learning the ropes would go out as an extra pair of hands, so sometimes there are 3 marshals on a game.

Hmm, wish that was the case. When I was there it was more 1 marshal to 20-30 punters... a group of 40-60 punters always with 2 marshals, I've even done a group of 40 on my own, a few times. Id like to know which centres get this decent staff levels! Just before I left as well the marshal ratios got changed to have even fewer marshals on the days.....

I heard at one centre, a marshal rearranged the speedball field to simulate a tourney field, though Im guessing no teams will train on it and its simply for them on marshal days.

 

[Markie C]

All i can say is that df suck because of the under hand stuff they get up to.

I know of 4 sites were they have been to and tried to get the owner chucked off so they can buy or rent the land.