Joy Stockholm official comment on OC NPPL

[H]

The same goes for Sebban. Instead of running into the middle of a crowd of refs/players, wait for them to sort it out.

Or if he'd made his move down the centre of the field and only landed a couple of hits on BC from the centre...

His move was a touch reckless but he tried to take advantage of the commotion going on in the snake and it backfired. I think the adrenalin was in control somewhat.

 

[Magued]

facts

listen guys we can discuss all the details as much as we want but if we just stay with the facts its pretty obvious something is stinking.

1. The official call as can be heard read up by Dan Perez is
that he SAW a joy player playing on after the reff pulled hes armband! And therefore we recived a penalty 3-4-1 and lost the game

Now this is established as false, its no ifs or buts about it. Fact are that no Joy player had hes armband removed at all in the situation as can be seen in all pictures and videos. Its very clear from the same pictures that both Dynasty players played on after their armbands was of. Alex by grabbing our live player and BC by shooting our live player.

Now if people tell me that reffs makes mistakes I can accept that. But if a head reff say that he SAW something that he didnt see then you have to ask yourself why? Why would he do that?

Second thing is like Chigaco pointed out. Even if Dan Perez was right and our player had done what Dan fabricated the game couldnt go to Dynasty but a draw.
In the NPPL rules the swing point can only go to the other team if the LAST player in the team gets a penalty for playing on or wiping. And our last player didnt and nobody have accused him for doing it either.

What else do we need?????


Magued

 

[Robbo]

Robbo,

Whilst I understand your point, do you not think that what happens on-field should, by and large, stay on-field?

I mean that, yes, whilst Dynasty have benefited from a serious error in the Judging, that shouldn't affect relations off-field? When I used to play Rugby there was all kinds of "horse-play" and "rough housing" going on in the scrums and mauls - none of which were in the rulebook (not even in the Welsh Valley amendments ), and some of which bloody hurt, but at the end of the game, all was forgiven as it wasn't about personal attacks, but just playing the game.

Yes, the Refs should have been in better positions.

Yes, Dan Perez does seem to have made some incredibly poor decisions this season (just going by internet accounts as I haven't personally attended an NPPL)

But if Dynasty and Joy can put it behind them, and not let a situation that - to be perfectly honest was very confusing and could really have gone either way (hindsight and video replays are a wonderful thing, but I'm sure that even you will agree that on your first viewing?) - then surely it is more important to take constructive lessons from this and move on rather than let a bad atmosphere develop between two teams?

Maybe I'm alone in this - but is any friend/comradeship (however fleeting) worth losing over just $25K?

Exile, there are many spins that can be put on this but for me it comes down to this, could I have done to Magued what the Dynasty guys did?
The answer, believe it or not, is 'no', not even for 25k.
Now I am pretty sure there are some people out there who won't believe that but the people who do know me will know what I say is true but...and there is a but here, there are teams out there who I would consider letting it ride against.
That is, if I were in Dynasty's position with another team facing me, then I would allow the injustice to continue and take the money.
And the reason I would do it is because those teams would have fukked me over in the past and I know they have no respect for anybody but themsleves.
I suppose my point is, when I shake Magued's hand, he knows it is a genuine display of respect and not some convenient social nicety to indulge in.

If you are gonna fukk somebody over then don't go pretending you are their friends or have respect for them because self-evidently you don't if you allow that sorta sh!t from Perez to stand.

 

[Robbo]

What else do we need?????


Magued

....a machete and Perez's head on the block?

 

[Robbo]

you hit the nail on the head..... $25K

its all about the money and their egos. (not that they use them )

Robbo the industry is too big to stand against at the moment. What the Pros do/use filters down to the wanna be pro's and general players and generates more money for the few large companies running the sport.

If they had turned around and said to JOY sorry we "cheated" you guys take the 1st position, what would Dynasty's sponsors have said ? What are they saying now about this ? ... bad publicity is still publicity.

Am I wrong but wasnt the last Joy player chased by a ref before he had even got to the last Dynasty player.... then grabbed by a "dead" player and tackled by the following REF... mmmmm

Should a Video REF be created ? ..as suggested by some other readers.

Mark, let me explain something mate, it's not the industry we are up against here, the industry sure don't help in matters like these but they aren't the root cause.
The root cause is player's predisposition to act like dicks.
We all have that propensity but rules are in place in all sports to restrict the levels and appearances of these misdemeanors.

And so, root problem = players.

Compounding the problem is the rules committees seeming inability to control the game either by enforcement or legislature.

The industry doesn't put enough pressure on teams and players to play fairly and in some cases the industry actively promotes cheating as we have seen with designer cheat guns.
I know 100% of people in the industry publicly condoning designer cheat guns in one breath and at the same time handing the cheat boards out to their sponsored teams in another.

And lastly, we come to the judging, it would seem the NXL guys have the best judging crews, no argument and so we must look at why they are and it doesn't take much working out.
A specifically selected permanent crew of pro judges...and if you do that, you won't have people like Perez doing what he did, well you can cut the chances of it happening anyway.

 

[H]

But isn't the NXL's superior refs a product of a format that it much better suited to consistent and controllable situations?

 

[Andy Will]

But isn't the NXL's superior refs a product of a format that it much better suited to consistent and controllable situations?

I think the format doesnt have as much to do with it as the reffing program. These reffs always work together and the more they do, the better they become.

 

[Robbo22]

call) and pull them out. If Brian didn't want to be bunkering dead guys, he should have waited a few seconds

The same goes for Sebban. Instead of running into the middle of a crowd of refs/players, wait for them to sort it out.

I think both players made bad decisions on the field. The put the game in the hands of the refs. If they'd just waited they could have kept the game in their own control.

well brian may have not known if the player was dead or not...

anyway, we can't change the past, unlucky on joy they played well, but it shoulkd of been settled with a one on one!

was down to the case of bad reffing, the refs didint pull any armbands of the joy players, even when one was clearly out,

oh well, good look next time joy

 

[Chicago]

But isn't the NXL's superior refs a product of a format that it much better suited to consistent and controllable situations?

Are you kidding? XBall lends itself to MORE inconsistent and uncontrollable situations than 7-man. You're taking a 7 minute game and condensing it down to 45-90 secods.

The difference in XBall is that since you play MANY points, any given officiating error is far less likely to have a severe impact on the match. (Although this is less true in the NXL where 5-miute majors are pretty damned devastating.)

The NXL refs are good because:

- They are experienced
- They are backed up, from the top down, as THE authority on the field.
- The NXL refs don't take the player's crap.
- The players know that the NXL refs are not going to take their crap.
- The same group of people ref the events over and over and over again, together.

NPPL does maybe one of those close to well.


I was talking to someone who plays the NPPL circuit at the Pro level, and one thing I had mentioned was that while NPPL puts on a great show, the DETAILS of running the tournament often seem to get overlooked. PSP/Xball tends to be the reverse - the tournament stuff is taken care of and the show gets overlooked. Examples include, PSP hired Tim Schroepfer as a reffing coordinator, who runs classes, runs the refs, and spends the whole event going from field to field reffing with people and teaching/reviewing them. NPPL doesn't have anyone who does this - the Ultimate ref is somebody 'stuck' with the job for the weekend of the event. PSP rewrites the rules at the start of every season, and updates them after every event. NPPL has been using basically the same rules since 2003 that are controlled by a committee of players that rarely meets. (The rule that said the event should have gone to a draw is an example - it's the wrong rule, a bad rule, and an unclear rule.) PSP has a real registration and classification system.

MOST of the time, NPPL events run good enough that it doesn't matter that promotion gets 100% and tournament details get 90%. But every now and again, like the final game at the OC, that last 10% is going to cause a very big problem.

NPPL needs to put a PRIORITY on having a strong, consistent reffing crew for at LEAST the Pro field, or it's only a matter of time before something like this happens again. You can't just throw more bodies on the showcase field on Sunday and expect that to work.

 

[H]

By consistent i was more referring to the fact that on an Xball field there are typically only so many ways to skin a cat, and with less players on the field and game-play situations repeated over and over again I'd have thought it would be a bit easier for refs to get a handle on how a game/point may pan out.

Correct me if I'm speaking out out of my ass again....