K2 bites the bullet in Reunification Part 96

[Chicago]

For the gun thing again: cap everything at 10 bps--a good compromise between the mechanical 'Mags of the day (7-8bps?) and the current slightly too fast rate. Millennium also has a better ramping mode: you have to activate your trigger at a ROF of 7.5bps before the gun starts adding shots. You also have to maintain that rate of trigger activation to keep the doubling effect of 15bps. Since it doubles rather than triples like PSP, only one shot is discharged after the last activation.

This is a somewhat safer mode and also rewards trigger skills a lot more.

You're kidding yourself if you think that rule is any different than the semi-auto rule. The only thing you are checking on the field is rate of fire. That's the only rule that counts. You can write all the rules about how that rate of fire is reached as you'd like, but they are worthless, because you have no way of checking for them.

Getting a little sick of people pretending that their unenforcable rule is somehow better than someone else's unenforceable rule.

 

[Chicago]

I feel 3mins between points is acceptable, as long as it actually 3mins.

It should be 90 seconds. And it should be 90 seconds in XBall too. Once most people are used to 90 seconds it should be cut to 60 seconds. 3 minutes is great for fat, out-of-shape athlete wannabes, but that's not what the timeout period should be set based on.

 

[H]

It should be 90 seconds. And it should be 90 seconds in XBall too. Once most people are used to 90 seconds it should be cut to 60 seconds. 3 minutes is great for fat, out-of-shape athlete wannabes, but that's not what the timeout period should be set based on.

Well it depends on your audience objective. If it's for live tv presentation or large crowds then the time between points needs to be enough to reset the fields (squeegee crews, arguing over point, pot bitches et al). Unless the field crews are beefed up substantially then hitting the 60secs could be tricky. Also if you are hoping for a live TV event (we can hope) then you need enough space to bung commercials and commentary feedback.

On the flip side, if the goal is a pre-recorded TV show then flexibility is afforded, 1 min, 10 mins.... Doesn't matter diddly when the public sees the final product. Also any planned elaborate camera techniques may necessitate extended time outs.


PS. Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about, i just would like to get involved in the debate.

 

[SPHEREPOINT]

I've put in the phone call. EDIT ADDED: Man, if it is who Matt thought he's amazed you're taking that position on the guns.

Why is he amazed? Let's make sure he's got the right guy- glasses,bald head,decent bus driver when not falling asleep at the wheel?

The break between points at only 90 seconds or less? Chicago,two minutes is not all that much for the guys who are in shape, let alone the ones who aren't! For those teams who don't have a full pit crew, it's absolutely no time. Why don't we just play continually until one team heat strokes out. Then, the last guy on his feet can either a) hang the real flag from the three he is seeing in his exhaustion induced multiple vision, b) take a refreshing drink of water from the newly installed mid field spigot, or c) pass out and fall out of bounds?

 

[Wadidiz]

You're kidding yourself if you think that rule is any different than the semi-auto rule. The only thing you are checking on the field is rate of fire. That's the only rule that counts. You can write all the rules about how that rate of fire is reached as you'd like, but they are worthless, because you have no way of checking for them.

Getting a little sick of people pretending that their unenforcable rule is somehow better than someone else's unenforceable rule.

First off, this ain't my rule. I don't work for Millennium any longer and I didn't write that particular rule.

Secondly, this--like PSP and NXL mode--is way different compared to the "semi-auto" rule in that it delivers the sought after effect: capped ROF. Obviously the semi rules--as they are not enforced now--let players get by with hopper-speed rates. That makes the difference night and day.

You're right that many or most refs aren't going to pay attention to the difference between PSP and Millennium modes during a game and--yes--a player could have a cheat to easily switch modes after the pre-game inspection (which--by the way--has caught several players with the wrong mode resulting in forfeits and suspensions). But, are players going to put in cheats just to circumvent the ROF gate? Not likely IMO.

So I think you're only partially right here, Chi. But I've begun to agree with you that it is technically and economically possibly to have a standardized, capped board that would be almost tamper-proof. I just doubt it will ever be politically possible.

 

[Liz]

It should be 90 seconds. And it should be 90 seconds in XBall too. Once most people are used to 90 seconds it should be cut to 60 seconds. 3 minutes is great for fat, out-of-shape athlete wannabes, but that's not what the timeout period should be set based on.

Impractical for reasons nothing to do with fitness. The timeout period needs to be long enough for pots to be replaced and players cleaned down - the cleaning down alone can be a mammoth task. For the xball format a short period can be adequate, as there is the ability to have 2 separate squads who alternate, but for M7 nearly all the same players MUST be ready to get back on for the next point.
And the shorter the time between points, the bigger the need for more pit crew (helping players get ready, markers needing gassing up) and the more equipment needed as spare guns would have to be used in case of even minor problems like a battery going down, and enough pots already filled before the match for every eventuality etc.

 

[Chicago]

90 seconds is plenty. Pros can wipe in 0.5 seconds; 90 seconds is 180 times as long.

Teams will adjust and be able to turn around in 90 seconds most of the time. The turnaround isn't supposed to be leasurely, it's supposed to be well-practiced and efficient. I'm not saying 90 seconds is necessarily enough for every class of play, but it's plenty for the Pros.

 

[Robbo]

90 seconds is plenty. Pros can wipe in 0.5 seconds; 90 seconds is 180 times as long.

Teams will adjust and be able to turn around in 90 seconds most of the time. The turnaround isn't supposed to be leasurely, it's supposed to be well-practiced and efficient. I'm not saying 90 seconds is necessarily enough for every class of play, but it's plenty for the Pros.

I don't like restricted turn-around times just so we can witness the prowess of pro players cleaning, potting and god knows what else.
I wanna see honed skills displayed ON the field not off, I agree that decreasing the turn-round time pressures teams and players to slicken up their mid game operations but ffs, I don't give a flying fuk if some team has got their cleaning turn around time off to a 'T'.

I wanna see teams concentrating their technical skill sets to accommodate their opponents not the clock, it's both artificial and unnecessary.

 

[SPHEREPOINT]

Efficiency on the field-not off, Robbo hits it right on the head. I think we all agree that a multiple format is the way to go, let's not get caught up in the semantics of the time outs.

As for rate of fire, how about the 13bps cap imposed by all the manufacturers in like, 1998? Few ever followed it, and they all eventually gave it up the paintball arms race.

 

[Robbo]

The arms race should never have happened; every sport has cheating mofos but our sport had the complicity of some parts of the industry and while some gun manufacturers would swear blind they would have nothing to do with cheating boards, all of us in the pro circles knew the hypocrisy of most of these assertions.
It sickened me when I would have to listen to the rhetoric of some of these people decrying cheating and the people who invested in it and at the same time back-dooring boards to their sponsored teams, how these guys ever held their heads up on the circuit is beyond me.

The ambiguity of semi-automatic operation has now made it expedient that we cap the rate of fire (I would go for 12 bps) which then puts marker operation into an area that can effectively be policed and would in one fell swoop allow teams to be more attacking and also more evenly matched.
But saying that, in the pro NPPL, they were evenly matched anyway because the vast majority of them had cheat boards.
Sad but true
I'm pretty glad I'm out of that environment come to think of it .....