Filling your bottles

[Tom]

A combination of the above.

In the bad old days when we had two or three flash fill explosions there were unrestricted fast fills operated by anybody, irrespective of whether they were 3000 or 4500psi, there was a lot of high pressure air going in fast and getting hot, add those factors to contamination and an innocent guy was the victim of a flash fill explosion and burns

The situation is now very different. Even if you see uncontrolled fill stations the fill stations you are likely to find at any good site will be restricted and you are less likely to feel bottles get hot when topping up. If you are filling from empty then pause to fill in 2 or 3 goes and your cylinder should ideally only get a bit warmer (it's also counter productive to fast fill and end up with hot air, as it will soon cool down, contract and you end up with less air)

For a site to run 4500psi fill stations they have the extra expense and risks of higher pressure cylinders, higher capability compressor and the knock on effects of risk assessments and insurance premiums of 50% higher pressure
They are more likely to run a 3000psi site system and bring in HPAC to supply 4500psi for events

To give players a consistent 3000psi or 4500psi fill, rather than run compressors all day, a site will typically have a series of holding tanks at a higher pressure feeding the fill stations, and the compressor topping up the main tanks

The guns that people use are more efficient and game lengths are short enough that players shouldn't be running out of air whether they have 3000 or 4500psi
(Even at walkons, though sites may have mobile scuba cylinders that can be taken out to more remote game zones, or have an in field fill station, allowing groups to head out for a few games)

A site will gain more from giving players easy access to regular fills by providing extra fill stations for less queueing then by giving a more expensive 4500 fill system


Note that it's one of my counter arguments when new players used to get told that they must start with a 4500psi cylinder - where are they going to get the extra fill to justify the extra £100 expense, that they could spend on other gear or paint

 

[Paul taft]

Thanks guys. I'm certainly not new to filling cylinders up thanks for the info thou.

 

[BOD]

Plus if a site runs air bottles on their rental fleet they'll be 3000psi tanks, no point for them of going to them extra expense of 4,500 psi fills.

Though they'll probably have a system capable of 4.5k fills but to do so generally means running the compressor continually through the day. Even when just filling 3k bottles you're going to fill your storage bottles well above 3k so you can maintain the 3k fills.

 

[onasilverbike]

Also for Insurance, a 3Ksystem is cheaper to insure than a 4.5K system!

 

[BOD]

Also for Insurance, a 3Ksystem is cheaper to insure than a 4.5K system!

I can't see why, other than the cost of the equipment both systems carry the same risks involved in using them.

 

[GRIMLOCK]

I can't see why, other than the cost of the equipment both systems carry the same risks involved in using them.

3k holds no risk of overfilling a steel tank, and since the own gear players tend to fill their own tanks a damaged carbon tank will do less damage at a 3k fill than 4.5k if it fails if they didn't get it re hydroed after a bad crack appeared.

 

[BOD]

3k holds no risk of overfilling a steel tank, and since the own gear players tend to fill their own tanks a damaged carbon tank will do less damage at a 3k fill than 4.5k if it fails if they didn't get it re hydroed after a bad crack appeared.

True 3k holds no risk of over filling aluminium bottles (no one uses steel bottles nowadays) but even if was over filled it would have to be over filled by a lot to be dangerous, the hydro test pressure is around 4.5k (can't remember the exact pressure), plus the burst disc should blow before the pressure in the bottle became dangerous.
I suspect a bottle failure at 3k is going to be just as spectacular as at 4.5k.

 

[onasilverbike]

I can't see why, other than the cost of the equipment both systems carry the same risks involved in using them.

For the same insurance company mentally that a 2.0l is usually cheaper to insure than a 3.0l V6

 

[Dentor]

we have trained marshals at hand to fill bottles from 3k to 4.5k at walkons and any other game day, yet it doesnt stop puddings from trying to fill the bottles themselves and end up getting the bottle stuck on the fill rigs because they dont actually know what there doing, i would much prefer customers fill there own bottles as it would be much less of a faff on, but as stated in the first post, insurance is the reason we cant.

 

[BOD]

we have trained marshals at hand to fill bottles from 3k to 4.5k at walkons and any other game day, yet it doesnt stop puddings from trying to fill the bottles themselves and end up getting the bottle stuck on the fill rigs because they dont actually know what there doing, i would much prefer customers fill there own bottles as it would be much less of a faff on, but as stated in the first post, insurance is the reason we cant.

But you put the marshals safety at risk filling bottles you don't know the history off, you don't know if they've used any oils in the fill nipple, or stripped a thread on a fill nipple and put it back in using super glue, or replaced a burst disc with a bit of coke tin because proper ones kept bursting. Instead of putting your marshals at risk wouldn't it be better to educate your customers on how to fill a bottle along with a short talk on all the don'ts involved with HPA systems and then when they do do something wrong it's their safety at risk.