Redline Millenium Ramping Issues

[Pandamonium]

I've not read the entire thread so please don't slap me if I've missed something but information appears to be thin on the ground so hopefully I can help clarify the rules regarding MS ramping ->

(1) The first three shots of ANY string have to be in semi-auto.
(2) In order to start ramping you have to pull the trigger at a minimum rate of 5 pulls per second, that is once every 200ms or faster.
(3) Once ramping has started you must continue to pull the trigger at a minimum rate of 5 pulls per second (once every 200ms or faster) in order to sustain ramping.
(4) Ramping stops when you do not pull the trigger for 200ms.
(5) There is NO one second ramp restart period. That means that as soon as ramping has stopped (see 4) then you have to start again at (1).

In practice, many will refer to 'two shots per pull' or 'only one extra shot'. This is because 10bps equals 1 shot every 100ms and if it takes 200ms for ramping to stop (see 4) then two shots can occur in that time.



The closest that I can find on the MS website is -

In a move to come closer to a world wide standard of rules and procedures and as discussed at the CPL/SPL team owners meeting in Amsterdam, the MS will adopt the same ROF cap (10bps) as used in the PSP. The rules will be updated shortly by following wording of rule ''10.01 Markers''

- The first 3 shots must be semi-auto mode only.
- Markers will be limited to a ROF of 10 balls per second (in 2009 actually 10.5 bps), defined as no two consecutive shots may be timed shorter than 95ms apart (reading on ROF meter of 10.5 bps or less = legal; reading on ROF meter of 10.6 bps or higher = illegal).
- Ramping of shots will be allowed only once 5 bps has been achieved. Then the marker may ramp to 10 bps, but only as long as the 5 bps is continually maintained. Once the trigger is stopped to be activated, only one single additional shot may be discharged.

Clarification: the 5 bps for start/sustain ramping dose not need to be hit physically, it refers to the time delay between trigger activations, which must be at least the equivalent to 5 bps. So a marker may start to ramp up to 10 bps, if (after the first three shots being in semi-auto only) the time delay between 3rd and 4th trigger activation is less than 200ms.


I hope this helps.

Flash,
Planet Eclipse

so what does this mean?

 

[frobinson]

(1) The first three shots of ANY string have to be in semi-auto.
(2) In order to start ramping you have to pull the trigger at a minimum rate of 5 pulls per second, that is once every 200ms or faster.
(3) Once ramping has started you must continue to pull the trigger at a minimum rate of 5 pulls per second (once every 200ms or faster) in order to sustain ramping.
(4) Ramping stops when you do not pull the trigger for 200ms.
(5) There is NO one second ramp restart period. That means that as soon as ramping has stopped (see 4) then you have to start again at (1).

Hi Flash,

Thanks for your help. From what you've said, it would seem there should be absolutely NO reset delay. From page 7 of this manual (http://www.paintballsolutions.com/05pb_solutions/pdf/manuals/empire/Empire-Redline-Manual_ENG.pdf) you can see the 'Ramp Reset' but unfortunately I can't set this lower than 1 second so I still can't get this working right!

 

[Pandamonium]

Can someone please bring these new developments to ainsly's attention to see if the axe is still field legal or what before I rock up to an event and get told my guns not allowed.

Or am I still being a dumb arse

Cheers

 

[Tam Rankin]

Best thing to day mate which I'll be soing at round 5 is I'm going to see @Thib at the just tent and speak to him and then try and grab a ref an sat and get them to check my Axe and make sure everythings right. I've only been playing just under a year and the Axe is the only marker i've had and love it. Its never let me down on the field. But when my team mates told me about them getting pulled for them ramping to soon and tested mine and it did the same no mater what the ramp start was. It would still ramp an the 2nd pull even if the ramp start was at 10. But after I did what Thib said about setting it to psp - 10bps - ramp start it didnt ramp till the 6th pull. And for some wierd reson when I put it back to mills it rampped on what ever the ramp start was set to so I'm thinking my markers all fine now. But I would like to know what caused the fault in the first place. It not only just 1 or 2 this happened on all our markers and all 3 boards ( optimus, shockwave and redline)

 

[Gaz #68]

Best thing to day mate which I'll be soing at round 5 is I'm going to see @Thib at the just tent and speak to him and then try and grab a ref an sat and get them to check my Axe and make sure everythings right. I've only been playing just under a year and the Axe is the only marker i've had and love it. Its never let me down on the field. But when my team mates told me about them getting pulled for them ramping to soon and tested mine and it did the same no mater what the ramp start was. It would still ramp an the 2nd pull even if the ramp start was at 10. But after I did what Thib said about setting it to psp - 10bps - ramp start it didnt ramp till the 6th pull. And for some wierd reson when I put it back to mills it rampped on what ever the ramp start was set to so I'm thinking my markers all fine now. But I would like to know what caused the fault in the first place. It not only just 1 or 2 this happened on all our markers and all 3 boards ( optimus, shockwave and redline)

If it didn't work correctly and then you changed some settings reset to millenium and it worked then it would sound to me like a software glitch as the hardware can clearly support it. If its working you might not want to change anything but if your further intrigued try a full factory reset then select millenium and see if it is broken. Then repeat the steps that fixed it previously and see if it works. If you can do this repeatedly it's almost certainly a software issue.

 

[Pandamonium]

I have followed thibs instructions for sorting the whole ramping too early problem and it has worked perfectly but now I have heard from the eclipse guy that the reset time after the first ramping stream isn't quick enough.
I have a pretty good understanding of computer programming and logic and everything he said made a lot of sense how the stock axe/mine board and the redline doesn't allow the ramping to reset back to three semi shots then to ramping after the ramping stream has finished (within 200 milliseconds of the last trigger pull stopping the 5 trigger pulls a second)
Whilst the millennium rules doesn't specifically state that this has to be done I can see how others would think it should be the case. From what I can understand the boards should be allowed 1 second of 0 trigger pulls to reset as logic stages that for example if two trigger pulls have been made one the first 150 milliseconds then the board should wait until the final part of the second to see if the subsequent 8 are pulled.

Again I may be being a fool but I thought i should find out whilst also trying to explain my reasoning.

Cheers.

 

[frobinson]

I have followed thibs instructions for sorting the whole ramping too early problem and it has worked perfectly but now I have heard from the eclipse guy that the reset time after the first ramping stream isn't quick enough.
I have a pretty good understanding of computer programming and logic and everything he said made a lot of sense how the stock axe/mine board and the redline doesn't allow the ramping to reset back to three semi shots then to ramping after the ramping stream has finished (within 200 milliseconds of the last trigger pull stopping the 5 trigger pulls a second)
Whilst the millennium rules doesn't specifically state that this has to be done I can see how others would think it should be the case. From what I can understand the boards should be allowed 1 second of 0 trigger pulls to reset as logic stages that for example if two trigger pulls have been made one the first 150 milliseconds then the board should wait until the final part of the second to see if the subsequent 8 are pulled.

Again I may be being a fool but I thought i should find out whilst also trying to explain my reasoning.

Cheers.

I wouldn't say you're a fool for worrying about this! I don't class myself as a fool and I'm worried about this... This is the issue I'm having. If it's not explicitly stated anywhere in the rules, I don't know what the reset time should be... I completely agree with Flash that it should be shorter than a second, and everything he has said has made sense. However, if I do all of Thibs settings, the Ramp Reset will still be no shorter than 1 second and hence the same problem will occur :/ Really not sure what to do to be perfectly honest.

 

[duncan0506]

A message from John at KEE, surely his word is gospel?

i will speak to Ainsley about this its the judges implementation if he is pulling the trigger twice then pulling it twice immediately after the gun will be thinking that the second pull is in the third pull of the trigger and then starting to ramp.

He should be leaving a time gap between the testing of around 3 seconds.

Try it yourself pull the trigger twice it wont fire a third shot leave it 3 seconds and pull twice again it still wont fire a third shot .
leave it less than 3 seconds and you will get what you describe.

Basically they are pulling the trigger before the ramp time has elapsed and causing the gun to start ramping on what it thinks is the third shot.

" Clarification: the 5 bps for start/sustain ramping dose not need to be hit physically, it refers to the time delay between trigger activations, which must be at least the equivalent to 5 bps. So a marker may start to ramp up to 10 bps, if (after the first three shots being in semi-auto only) the time delay between 3rd and 4th trigger activation is less than 200ms."

basically it only starts to look for 5bps sustained after the third shot so if he pulls trigger too soon on his second or third test it may still be remembering the the previous shots.

I will call Ainsly and tell him.

John

 

[Pandamonium]

Good that it's been looked at by the people that matter. My mind is finally at ease for now. Thanks Duncan

 

[frobinson]

@Ainsley as we talked about on fb, just in case you couldn't find the thread Duncan's post above has Johns reply!