Is tournament paintball heading in the right direction?

[Missy-Q]

A very good and concise post, Missy. The only thing I would like to point out is that I have never stated that the NPPL went bust three times - I was just quoting Exile's post.

Fine, but it's your thread, so I wanted the resulting debate to have at least a little fact in it. And besides, when Exile stated (incorrectly) that the league went bust 3 times, you wrote :

"But that is a matter for those who manage the finances of the league - it isn't a fault of the format."

This is basically an agreement to the comment, at least in my opinion, and also the reason I decided to enlighten you.

(smiley-face-guy)

 

[Tony Harrison]

And Baca Loco - as good a Coach as he is - is not the Messiah.

He's just a very naughty boy.

 

[Tony Harrison]

Fine, but it's your thread, so I wanted the resulting debate to have at least a little fact in it. And besides, when Exile stated (incorrectly) that the league went bust 3 times, you wrote :

"But that is a matter for those who manage the finances of the league - it isn't a fault of the format."

This is basically an agreement to the comment, at least in my opinion, and also the reason I decided to enlighten you.

(smiley-face-guy)

Thanks, Missy - I should have explained myself more fully.

 

[Exile]

For the record, the NPPL did not go bust 3 times.

Here is a history lesson for the people that keep saying this:

NPPL name was bought by Chuck Hendsch (NPPL was 10&5 man, but about to go X-ball)
Hendsch approached WDP/Angel for support/partnership.
WDP start Pure Promotions.
Pure Promotions create NPPL Super & Series.
Series runs for 4 years.
WDP sell Pure Promotions to Pacific Paintball.
Pacific Paintball runs the Super 7 Series for 1 season.
Pacific Paintball is Bankrupt (this is the first time someone running the NPPL, or the NPPL itself, is 'bust')
Team reps, plus Chuck Hendsch, buy the assets of pacific paintball at Auction, including the NPPL brand-name.
This group operate the league to this day (2nd season)


THAT is an accurate interpretation of the facts. The NPPL went bust once, not 3 times.

Jonathan, I know that Baca Loco refers to this being the 3rd incarnation of the NPPL, and I know you think of Paul as a godlike being, but facts are facts, and while this is the 3rd (4th actually) ownership of the NPPL, and therefore 3rd (4th actually) version thereof, it is untrue/inaccurate to say it went bust 3 times, twice, or any other number other than once (1).
This '3 times bust' fantasy is just something people repeat over and over, hoping it will one day become truth, or perhaps in some cases, simply ignorance of the facts

Anyway, this should help the argument for 7-man, or at least allow it to be more of a fact-based argument.

My bad - thanks for the insight Missy, I owe you a Martini for that.

C'mon Pinky, you can do better than that. You are making it too easy to shoot your arguments down...

F1 does not bleed money. Neither does the boat thing. Sure, it may look like it does on the surface, but all the money poured into that is coming back in multiples through advertising.
This ain't happening in paintball.
And you say football is a marketing machine? Sure is, but F1 even more so man. In fact, they were one way before football became one.

Jay,

Both F1 and the Admirals Cup (the boat thing? Blasphemy!) do bleed money - the teams are heavily backed by the manufacturers, and some costs are recouped through huge amounts of sponsorship, but both are mostly run as an exercise in pushing the boundaries of technology and branding purposes. They do not provide a measurable return on investment, especially by today's standards but do set the Manufacturers up as bleeding edge inventors and innovators - much the same as sponsoring a Pro team is done in paintball today, you're not necessarily going to see that money back directly through sales (with the exception of maybe Vicious, as they do seem to push a LOT of gear), but rather as an indirect marketing tool to push the value of the brand up above your competitors. Oh, and I hate football. Lots.

 

[Buddha 3]

branding purposes.

Tadaaaaa! He gets it. What do you think branding is?

You're basically saying that they are representing themselves as cutting edge companies, and we should buy their cars because of it.
You basically just described the whole reason of sponsoring/endorsing/having your own team. And is basically exactly what I said.
And believe me, they get way more than their money out of it. These companies do NOTHING that doesn't result in more money being made in the end. Even Bugatti makes money by selling the Veyron at lower than production costs.

And also exactly like I said, do the same thing in paintball, and it's just kissing your money goodbye.

As far as football is concerned, it blows chunks. I hate it. Another thing we agree on.

 

[stongle]

You're basically saying that they are representing themselves as cutting edge companies, and we should buy their cars because of it.

Hmmm, I think a lot of Ferraris are bought for klunge not racing pedigree.

 

[Buddha 3]

Hmmm, I think a lot of Ferraris are bought for klunge not racing pedigree.

Which is why F1 always has plenty of klunge strutting around as well...

 

[Missy-Q]

Which is why F1 always has plenty of klunge strutting around as well...

It's true, they have some of the best klunge around.
We're talking Grade A, top drawer, sweet-ass klunge.

 

[Stan]

Is tournament paintball heading in the right direction?

Since when has tournament paintball had a direction? Since when has paintball had a direction for that matter?

Paintball isn't a sport. It's a hobby.
It isn't run by a National Governing Body.
Very, very few players train at all. Most muck about.
Realistically it's too expensive to ever become accessible enough (financially and culturally) to get the numbers into the game to allow it to develop into a sport.

You want to make tournament paintball "better" in the short term?
Listen to all of the players all of the time. Change stuff to please them. Then change it again in 3 months time. Fail to make money and close your series. End up in a seedy B&B pimping your daughters out to Stongle to afford your next meal.

You want to change UK tournament paintball in the long term?
No-one has the money or the level of control to make the required changes happen within the UK. Paintball has been and always will be a hobby in the UK. Not a sport. Therefore, tournaments will struggle to cater for the demands of the players. The views of the players are so diverse that no single tournament format can cater for everyone.

Run a number of events (not a series) where the format is different at each event and each event has prizes in it's own right. This will cater for everybody. People will pick and choose which events they attend. Some will enter and play the formats that they think they don't like and might surprise themselves and find that actually, at the end of the day, they're all fundamentally the same. Throw a woodsball tournament in there for the hell of it and you might attract a bit more crossover from the big game scene. Include a limited paint format event and push it with kids and students at local schools, colleges and shopping centres and you've got another talent pool. Run a punter tournament with mech markers alongside a 'normal' tournament by flyering local pubs, sports centres, gyms, 5 a side football teams, etc and you've got another pool of talent to pic from... Suddenly the tournament scene has a couple of more people and the events get a bit more exciting and the game starts to grow. Possibly into a sport.

I like the idea of NOT publishing the field layouts. You don't turn up to play Sunday League football knowing what formation your opposition is going to rock up with.

 

[Tony Harrison]

Good post, Stan.

But if we don't try to take control and make things change, change will never happen and we will be directionless.