WORLD CUP news! Avalanche caught cheating!

[Baca Loco]

Pete, I think you might possibly be mistaken

Originally posted by Robbo
Hey Baca, your first line, 'Sorry Pete, but wrong-o' , would be better and certainly more accurately re-written as,' I think you are mistaken', anyway, enough of the objective / subjective divide that opened your post
I don't think I quite understand the point you are trying to make, if you are saying that an improvement was made to the game because of a large number of refs, albeit, the teams were still cheating, then you are not refuting my point at all. And as for your other two points, they look good on paper mate but come the time you or your wife need a restroom, I know what that paper is gonna be used for.
Nah, Paul, I think you are wrong, the more indelible impression is gonna be made not by poor judging but by poor facilities.
Just my opinion you understand....oh and my wife's
Pete

I guess we are gonna disagree then on this one but c'est la vie.
My principle point was there is no "game" to attract the fans that need the extra facilities and comfortably place from which to watch unless the foundation of the sport is established first and that foundation, IMO, demands superior reffing--not morally superior participants. I used the differences readily apparent between the World Cup event's reffing and X-Ball exhibition's reffing to make the point.
And I also think, completely separate from the issues and requirements of sport and X-Ball, that the promoters first obligation to the players who are paying to compete is an equitable opportunity, not a plethora of clean port-a-johns.

PS--would you buy the whole wrong-O Pete thing as a test? Just to see how the ol blood pressure responded? I didn't think so.

 

[Robbo]

Pete, I think you might possibly be mistaken

Originally posted by Baca Loco

I guess we are gonna disagree then on this one but c'est la vie.
My principle point was there is no "game" to attract the fans that need the extra facilities and comfortably place from which to watch unless the foundation of the sport is established first and that foundation, IMO, demands superior reffing--not morally superior participants. I used the differences readily apparent between the World Cup event's reffing and X-Ball exhibition's reffing to make the point.
And I also think, completely separate from the issues and requirements of sport and X-Ball, that the promoters first obligation to the players who are paying to compete is an equitable opportunity, not a plethora of clean port-a-johns.
PS--would you buy the whole wrong-O Pete thing as a test? Just to see how the ol blood pressure responded? I didn't think so.

Blood pressure test ?
Nah, ain't buying that for a second....but you knew I wouldn't

You seem to be introducing the notion of a chicken and egg situation but I still think the deployment of not only clean but also sufficient toilets, as a number one requirement to paying players, paying vendors and their families and just as importantly, any potential new interests who might just mosey on down to the world cup and evaluate its TV potential.
And God hep them if they need to take piss or a crap..or any of their families if they had them with them.
Superior reffing, as you quote in the X-Ball example, just highlights teams propensities to cheat but the underlying malpractice is still the same in both formats, it's just that the cheats get caught more in X-ball as the Pittsburgh example so evidently showed.
Pete

 

[KillerOnion]

Just as bad or worse

The toilet situation was indeed bad, but what I gathered to be a more critical situation than that was the water situation. The concession stands were selling TINY, I mean PATHETICALLY TINY bottles of water at an inflated price which was was made even worse by the heat. Unless you hung out in the WDP area all day or lugged a cooler around with you, it was either pay out a ton of cash or get dehydration. One of the refs told me that at least two people had to medically treated for heat stroke.

Ok, I understand trying to make a buck here and there, but taking it that far is seriously making it unsafe for everyone. What should they have done? Well, were it me, I'd have had water coolers inside the nets and by the fields. Certainly keep the concessions selling cokes, gatorades, etc. as they always are, but not implementing extortion against people that have already paid out damn good money to be there in the first place and shouldn't have to choose between their wallet and possibly their life.

 

[Wadidiz]

Besides the leaking out of what might possibly happen with our sport next season I hear two main themes:

1. Severe lackings in the quality of facitlies in PSP events, especially the World Cup.

2. Too much low-standard and/or lack of refs at PSP events (I'm sure this wasn't true all the way through).

Since I didn't attend any of the PSP events this year I have to go with what I've read on the forums and heard from friends and acquaintances.

A question I have is where is any accountability? If PSP breaks the NPPL rules about minimum quantity of refs per field (which is already a ridiculously low requirement) then what can be done about it? Will the PSP take away the tournament from the PSP? If people are profit-gouged for a necessity like water, who has to answer for that? If the promoter is so tight-wadded as to not spend a couple of hundred extra dollars for more portable toilets what instance do we complain to?

We all know the answer to that. The lunatics are running the insane asylum.

What can we do about it? Not a damn thing but suck on it. Or stay away from their events in droves. (Easy for me to say since I wasn't there anyway and I can attend much better events closer to where I live now.)

But we know the events will continue to be well-attended because as Barnum, I think it was, said "a sucker is born every minute". We'll just whine but not much will change because it is the biggest act in the world and the only really significant one in North America. Therefore teams will continue to show up, bend over and smile.

Too bad it can't be changed.

Steve

 

[Baca Loco]

Last words

Every player in every sport commits either intentional or unintentional infractions of the rules at one time or another without impacting the integrity of the sport--because those in charge have a committment to effective, unbiased refereeing. If you ain't got that you got no sport. And so far pball ain't got it.

And I don't know about the rest of ya but I've been to enough tourneys to always bring a cooler or buy cheap drinks the night before and I'd sooner deal with a gross portable toilet than incompetent or insufficient refs 'cus when I come home from an event I remember my frustration and anger over poor reffing a lot longer than I do a lousy crapper.

 

[€gg]

SNIPER?

Maybe it was TWIST
lol

 

[Robbo]

Last words

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Every player in every sport commits either intentional or unintentional infractions of the rules at one time or another without impacting the integrity of the sport--because those in charge have a committment to effective, unbiased refereeing. If you ain't got that you got no sport. And so far pball ain't got it.

And I don't know about the rest of ya but I've been to enough tourneys to always bring a cooler or buy cheap drinks the night before and I'd sooner deal with a gross portable toilet than incompetent or insufficient refs 'cus when I come home from an event I remember my frustration and anger over poor reffing a lot longer than I do a lousy crapper.

Well, my last word, and I am not presuming that it is anything but mine, if Baca wants to have the last word then fine.

Paul (Baca), what you say personally is important to you, is true but we are talking not about the players, we are talking about a sport whose premier tournament in the US can't even be bothered to cater not only for its players but for any outside potential interests.
If some guy from Coke comes down to watch the World Cup, he don't give two ****s about how you or anybody else for that matter, got judged, it's a mere technicality for him but what will make an impact is the provision made for the people who are there.

And I'm afraid Paul, not everybody who was there were playing the event and those that were may not be so dismissive as you concerning the facilities for themselves and their families.

Pete

 

[Wadidiz]

Last words

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Every player in every sport commits either intentional or unintentional infractions of the rules at one time or another without impacting the integrity of the sport--because those in charge have a committment to effective, unbiased refereeing. If you ain't got that you got no sport. And so far pball ain't got it.

And I don't know about the rest of ya but I've been to enough tourneys to always bring a cooler or buy cheap drinks the night before and I'd sooner deal with a gross portable toilet than incompetent or insufficient refs 'cus when I come home from an event I remember my frustration and anger over poor reffing a lot longer than I do a lousy crapper.

Baca,

You've made this point several times about the reffing being the most important factor for a major tournament, and I agree with you. It would definitely suck rotten weenies to come home from an expensive tournament after having been kept out of the semis or finals because of one or more bad calls that resulted from incompetence or too few refs.

I agree that reffing is far more important than lack of proper facilities, but the latter is also a sign of disrespect. (And now that I've read Robbo's last post, I agree that it is major bad PR.)

I think you have seen all the posts I have made with suggestions about how to get a handle on the cheating. Have I seen you comment specifically on them? Forgive me if I have forgotten. You've been counselling me in other areas. Go ahead and shatter my illusion if what I've suggested is totally unrealistic. Obviously I think not.

Steve

 

[Furby]

The Final Word?

I for one am not ready to render a final word on this year's World Cup, or its implications for next year.

What Salm did was reprehensible, and even more reprehensible is the enviroment that made it possible to think it was 'okay' or defensible. I'm not saying that all Pro Players or NPPL participants would EVER step over the line like Mr. Salm did. However, I have a feeling that there are a group of people within the organization that feel they can do as they like without reprecussions. Maybe Salm thought he was part of that group, or perhaps he simply caved to the pressure that's on this very select group of people. Maybe he's so insanely arrogant as to think that he could pull a stunt like this and get away with it. We'll never know, will we?

I was there, and I saw the reactions of players there, the vendors, and just regular people watching the greatest paintball show on earth. Not once did I sense any outrage at what had happened, nor did I get a clear cut feeling that anybody thought it was wrong. The most emotion I saw was a chuckle and a shake of the head. There was some disbelief, but most people seemed to take it in stride, just part of life in the NPPL.

I suppose what the story will be next year is how this incident and the aftermath will affect the NPPL/PSP in its marshaling corps, event site setup and perhaps how the Paintball Media reports on major events and the things that go on there. After reading Bambi Bullard's report on the IAO this year, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel.

As for me, I'll be there playing (FOR A CHANGE), commenting on what I see and what I think about it. It's the nicest part of being a commentator...instead of just reporting what happens, I get to experience it as well.

I suppose the 'last word' ought to be two: What's next?

 

[raehl]

It's very simple...

We are never going to take this sport ANYWHERE with the NPPL/PSP format.

Toilets? You're in a cow pasture - of course the toilets are going to be crappy port-a-johns. Of course the parking is going to be unpaved and dust is going to be flying everywhere.

Water? Again, it's a cow pasture - no running water, which means it has to be carted in. If you're too lazy to bring in your own wter, that means you're going to have to pay for someone else to do it. not only is water jugs inside the fencing a pain to do from the keeping-them-fll standpoint, it just generates that much more garbage with paper cups all over the place.

If we want the sport to be taken seriously as a sport, we're going to have to start conducting it in ATHLETIC facilities. Frankly, I think the days of a national circuit where anyone can pay the entry and play are very numberred. And that's a good thing.


NPPL/PSP events have to be in locations that are never going to be any good at attracting spectators and sponsors for the very simple reason that the people who play in the tournaments don't want to foot the bill for a better location, esp. since spectators and sponsors are of no value to them. If Coke shows up and decided to throw a bunch of money into the league, does that help the rookie teams? No. They don't offer anything worth giving them Coke's money for.


Paintball is a VERY VERY strange thing, and the days where we can get by being this wierd and still function are going to end pretty quick I'd imagine. 100+ teams in the same tournament will never allow you to do all of the other things necessary.


- Chris