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When do markers pass the point of diminishing returns?

Ben Frain

twit twoo
Sep 7, 2002
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Right, I've been looking at all the different kit for a few weeks now and looked through 'What Paintball Gear', 'PGI' etc and I'm still a little confused...

Perhaps some of the more experienced players out there can offer their opinion on this:-

Where do you feel markers reach the point of diminishing returns for your investment? What I mean is that usually, you get what you pay for e.g. more spent on a marker = better marker.

However, where do you feel that the extra prices starts to make negligible improvements? For example, after about the Vision Impulse range? Or do you think the £1500 price tag of an angel represents £1000 worth of improvement over a Vision Impulse?

I'm not talking about asthetics, which obviously anyone can spend a small fortune on, rather 'real' definable performance quality e.g. shoots further/more accurate/faster/doesn't chop paint etc...
 

Micah

New Member
there's a bell curve involved as i see it, I dont see how i could illistrate it here But I'm going to try
C|-------|-------
O|------/--------
S|___/---------
T|__________
Proformance

So as cost goes up so does profromance but only to a point. If we're talking the difference between the Angel ir3 and the Angel CLaSS, there will be very very little difference proformance wise. Just cosmetics.

There you go. I didn't really answer your question ... But ... I sorta did ...

-Micah
 

Ben Frain

twit twoo
Sep 7, 2002
1,823
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0
In a tree
Yes, that's a visual representation of 'diminishing returns' - however, what I want to know is, where in peoples opinions is the point where you start to obtain diminishing returns. e.g your putting in a shed load of cash, but not getting a shed load of improvement.

Or to put it another way. At what level of marker expenditure do you stop getting value for money?

Spyder?
AutoCocker?
Impulse?
Angel?

Just interested to hear the opinions of those who have owned some of these different markers...
 

stongle

Crazy Elk. Mooooooooooo
Aug 23, 2002
2,842
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Visit site
my thoughts.....

This is a rather interesting and potentially contentious thread. Personally, I've just moved from a Vision Impulse to an Angel, so have some experience re cost in this instance. The reason for this are twofold:

1. Vanity
2. Comfort level with Space frame and the IR3 is much tighter

Since you kinda exempted Vanity from the argument (to me it was worth the premium, although I do dearly love my Impulse still).

For my experience and skill levels diminishing returns likely kicked in when I spent more than a Spyder on a marker. Being a novice I still have a huge amount of field craft (playing tight, when to move, snap shooting, communicating etc) and skills to learn. It's very often not the marker that made the hit but the individual behind it. If I get tagged in a game no matter what they are shooting, it was because the individual had better technique and skills than me. Listening to how these guyz / girlz shot me out was more important to me than the marker they used (silly use of cover, not tight enough hence two in the back of the head with an inferno - fair enough!)

hmmm, am I answering the question, well not quite.

What I have acquired with both markers though is exceptionally reliable, accurate and high rates of fire (ROF). This enables me to have some competitive edge in a game, and I can put a lot of paint in the direction of an opposing player. The more paint the more chance of tagging him out. Also on a sup-air field the speed of play often means that only milliseconds are available to get out from behind the bunker acquire target and shoot. This is an exceptionally important skill to learn but obviously comes with time, experience and mostly practice. Also if my marker is "up", and I'm firing, having 14 bps bouncing of your bunker is something very difficult to snap shoot out from, hence I could be pinning in a more experienced player. A debatable point though is this worth the additional cost???? To a point it is. We played some concept and speedball games recently where a couple of impulse's and top end cockers went up against and a larger number of playerz all with Spyders, tippies and e-mags. To cut along (and at times amusing story short), the day was very one sided. Although a number of factors went in our favour (being a smaller team was one) the skill and experience base was well matched, the high-end markers definitely made huge ROF difference in these games. Even some players with very good field sense and a lot of experience admitted it was not a pleasant experience being on the end of so much "inbound". Saying that it was still a very friendly day out!

Here endeth the lesson.............. not likely....

A couple of factors which will should also have an impact on "Bang for your buck"

1. What are you playing rec-ball or tournament. If Rec-ball is your bag and your a bit of a sniper I've heard many people say you can't get better than a Tippman with a Flatline barrel nice flat trajectory range of an ICBM. Also substantially cheaper than any top-end electro's and cockers.
2. Re-sale and trade in value. One quick look in the classified section should tell you all about that. The interest in Angels is phenomenal, and they still command pretty good re-sale values. Also the depreciation on Angels is lower than that on Impulses etc. Since many people comment that you trade up very quickly this should be considered.
3. Cost and upgrades. I may have to disagree though re the Angel being 1000 GBP more than the Impulse. Once upgrades come in to play the cost of Impulse ownership can exceed Angel. Sure the I-frame, delrin bolt, cricket board, freak kit made me shoot much faster and more accurate, but total cost exceeds that of an Angel. Out of the Box the Angel is brilliant value

hmmmm, likely to get flamed on this post, perhaps the most important factor re diminishing returns is personal preference. Spending 1000's on markers won't make you a better player, I personally believe high ROF "can" make you more competitive, but the cost of this is relative to each individual budget. Also I've left behind my student years many moons ago, lack of wifey and kids means a small disposable income to feed Paintball with hence my cost / return factors are a little different to players on tighter budgets. Ok so that's my 10p worth back to work. I'm sure some of you will think "I'm depriving a village somewhere of it's idiot", but anyway....

laterzzzzzzzzzzzz

(overly long fell asleep whilst composing)
 

stongle

Crazy Elk. Mooooooooooo
Aug 23, 2002
2,842
67
83
61
The Wynn
Visit site
my thoughts.....

This is a rather interesting and potentially contentious thread. Personally, I've just moved from a Vision Impulse to an Angel, so have some experience re cost in this instance. The reason for this are twofold:

1. Vanity
2. Comfort level with Space frame and the IR3 is much tighter

Since you kinda exempted Vanity from the argument (to me it was worth the premium, although I do dearly love my Impulse still).

For my experience and skill levels diminishing returns likely kicked in when I spent more than a Spyder on a marker. Being a novice I still have a huge amount of field craft (playing tight, when to move, snap shooting, communicating etc) and skills to learn. It's very often not the marker that made the hit but the individual behind it. If I get tagged in a game no matter what they are shooting, it was because the individual had better technique and skills than me. Listening to how these guyz / girlz shot me out was more important to me than the marker they used (silly use of cover, not tight enough hence two in the back of the head with an inferno - fair enough!)

hmmm, am I answering the question, well not quite.

What I have acquired with both markers though is exceptionally reliable, accurate and high rates of fire (ROF). This enables me to have some competitive edge in a game, and I can put a lot of paint in the direction of an opposing player. The more paint the more chance of tagging him out. Also on a sup-air field the speed of play often means that only milliseconds are available to get out from behind the bunker acquire target and shoot. This is an exceptionally important skill to learn but obviously comes with time, experience and mostly practice. Also if my marker is "up", and I'm firing, having 14 bps bouncing of your bunker is something very difficult to snap shoot out from, hence I could be pinning in a more experienced player. A debatable point though is this worth the additional cost???? To a point it is. We played some concept and speedball games recently where a couple of impulse's and top end cockers went up against and a larger number of playerz all with Spyders, tippies and e-mags. To cut along (and at times amusing story short), the day was very one sided. Although a number of factors went in our favour (being a smaller team was one) the skill and experience base was well matched, the high-end markers definitely made huge ROF difference in these games. Even some players with very good field sense and a lot of experience admitted it was not a pleasant experience being on the end of so much "inbound". Saying that it was still a very friendly day out!

Here endeth the lesson.............. not likely....

A couple of factors which will should also have an impact on "Bang for your buck"

1. What are you playing rec-ball or tournament. If Rec-ball is your bag and your a bit of a sniper I've heard many people say you can't get better than a Tippman with a Flatline barrel nice flat trajectory range of an ICBM. Also substantially cheaper than any top-end electro's and cockers.
2. Re-sale and trade in value. One quick look in the classified section should tell you all about that. The interest in Angels is phenomenal, and they still command pretty good re-sale values. Also the depreciation on Angels is lower than that on Impulses etc. Since many people comment that you trade up very quickly this should be considered.
3. Cost and upgrades. I may have to disagree though re the Angel being 1000 GBP more than the Impulse. Once upgrades come in to play the cost of Impulse ownership can exceed Angel. Sure the I-frame, delrin bolt, cricket board, freak kit made me shoot much faster and more accurate, but total cost exceeds that of an Angel. Out of the Box the Angel is brilliant value

hmmmm, likely to get flamed on this post, perhaps the most important factor re diminishing returns is personal preference. Spending 1000's on markers won't make you a better player, I personally believe high ROF "can" make you more competitive, but the cost of this is relative to each individual budget. Also I've left behind my student years many moons ago, lack of wifey and kids means a small disposable income to feed Paintball with hence my cost / return factors are a little different to players on tighter budgets. Ok so that's my 10p worth back to work. I'm sure some of you will think "I'm depriving a village somewhere of it's idiot", but anyway....

laterzzzzzzzzzzzz

(overly long fell asleep whilst composing)
 

PaintballBudgie

Stroke the badge Kenneth!
Doesn't really matter does it, buy what you want up to what you can afford to pay.

If you are happy with a marker that cost £200 great, if you want to spend £2000 on a top of the range marker with air system and can afford it, why not.

Hence why some people are happy with a skoda whilst others want a BMW.

I could live in a one bedroomed flat, but choose a 3 bedroomed house, differences in performance are not that different and yet I pay for more room.
 

Philip

Whip it out..
Mar 24, 2002
3,040
12
63
Ellesmere Port
Well i would rather spend as little as possible on the highest quality possible....

IE, i would rather get a BM2K3(£500 ish) than a £1000 vibrator because the main difference between them is the asthetics.
 

Ben Frain

twit twoo
Sep 7, 2002
1,823
0
0
In a tree
Ian, I think you're kind of missing the point. With all products there is a point of diminishing returns. Flashy extras that don't make any *real* difference but cost lots of money...

Or are you saying there is no difference between a £200 marker and a £1000 one?

In the analogy you make you defeat your own argument, you buy a three bedroom house because it has more room (a real difference over a one bedroomed flat). Therefore you are not hitting upon a diminishing return. You pay a fair amount extra and get a fair amount for what you pay (2 extra bedrooms, a garden etc etc)

What I am asking is - where is the point of diminishing returns in buying markers whereby people stop to see a true value for money and performance related increase comparable to the amount of extra money they are paying for said features?
 

Micah

New Member
Originally posted by Benfrain
What I am asking is - where is the point of diminishing returns in buying markers whereby people stop to see a true value for money and performance related increase comparable to the amount of extra money they are paying for said features?
Sadly there is no 'Right' answer to this question. it's all up to wha tyou think and fel you get for your money. some one might like a CLaSS better than a Std. ir3, there for have more confidance in it, there for play better.

An Angel will be comprable to a Matrix will be comp. to a high end timmy will be comp. to a high end vision impy wil be comp to etc.

These markers give you consistancy and speed. They're all high end markers and more or less equal on the field.

The best Bang for your buck marker is with out question the BE Talon.

-Micah