Vote Here - The Choice is Yours !!!!!

[Rat]

I voted woodlands, as thats how i started playing, as much as I enjoy bunkers and Sup air I would ideally like to play a combination of the two.

In my opnion taking a step or two back can only reaffirm the direction in which you need to move forward. how many times have some things had to go back to basics in order to get to the top of there fields? its a theory that works (occasionally!)

 

[gungungunner]

I have been looking at this debate i have played in USA and Europe since it went from 7 man to Xball I think it started the decline when it went to Xball but why did it go to Xball maybe what we need is a new format that give value for money like the forest did , which leaves Formula 5.
At first it looks odd but when u read the comments from people that have played it it seems to fill in all the blanks that are missing i would love to play this format and form my own opinion but i cant where i live so i will vote formula 5 just because the other formats have all at some point failed and we need to try something new.

 

[Mario]

You have every right to state an opinion because you have played and know this game very well and also, without proverbially blowing any smoke up yer ass, you got a real good brain in that head of yours.

You mention there is no pressure from the outside and you are right, the pressure we now feel is exclusively from the inside, the customer base, the one demographic that allegedly holds the most power.
Unfortunately, as we all know, this demographic only has power if it gets organized and thus far, we have had zero effect on the direction of our sport because we haven't organsied ourselves.

I think your comment of 'choosing the lesser of two evils' being 'stupid' isn't a correct one, far from it; sometimes it's the best strategy obviously dependent upon the circumstances at the time.
There are occasions when the only choice you have to move forward is to select the lesser of two evils but your statement basically completely ignores an opportunity to do so thus securing the one thing that could potentially destroy you by default... if you are in the sh!t, the one thing you need more than anything is options for escape and if one of those options is a lesser of evils then so be it .. it's not stupid at all, it's an appropriate course of action if the need be.
This of course is a general principle and it may well not be appropriate in this case as far as you are concerned but I don't think it shouldn't be written off so easily.

As for 'what is value for money', I think that can be distilled into thinking of it as 'trigger time' and whilst one can readily rattle off examples of teams getting bashed up and playing only minutes of ball at some 7-man events, the general outcome is somewhat different and in my opinion does provide a longer trigger time for players.

I could be wrong of course but I can only make an observation based upon on my experiences of the game I have watched for many years.

One of your crossroads options, the one you are advising we take, is an idealistic format that provides all of the main requirements which of course is gonna be a difficult talk to come up with let alone impose on people because of its newness.
7-man was advised because the transition back to it, although not seamless, would be less of a task than coming up with an entirely new format based upon the features you mention ... once again Mario, it's a lesser of evils choice I'm afraid mate .. which of course is what a crossroads really is, is it not?

Maybe me and you are just two sides of the coin ...
Take it easy mate.

I'll agree to disagree with you

I think the time is ripe for an idealistic format. In my minds eye going back to seven man is delaying the inevitable. 5 man x ball doesn't work, 7 man doesn't work, so we're going to have to come up with something new, which is possibly why we have Sostas new format.

I think we are two sides of the same coin mate, my side wants to jump straight in with maximum change and your side wants to do it in a slower considered way. Ah the follies of youth...

Peace out...

 

[Rat]

I did post up a while ago (a long while)

about trying to strip down to basics in perhaps 7 man and making it into a "regular" style sport.

By this I mean if you look at the way football is done.

schools play at a school level, into county/local teams and then if good national, now if paintball could be done in a similar way (I'm not suggesting getting it into schools mind, though it ould be cool if some school did)

you could end up with

schools league
Uni league
"county/city" teams/leagues

with the creme de la creme of the below formin team UK, ready to take on the world!!

but just as it will be now the idea was shot down in flames lol

 

[Justin Owen]

Whoa.
(insert Neo face here)

I should've known better than to look in here when I don't have time to write a thoughtful response, but still it's killing me so I'll have to say a little something...

Sssssoooooo...the basic problem is really two or three orders deep:

(1) Tournament paintball has effectively alienated the single most important group responsible for its development in the first place; that being the middle-aged weekend warriors that fueled its growth. They had the TIME, the MONEY, and the DESIRE to play. As such, the alienation stems from three things:
(a) cost, which is a result of skyrocketing tournament costs caused by a combination of
(av1) a tournament format which is incredibly expensive to enter in the first place, and
(av2) a technological explosion which REQUIRES a player to basically spend close to a dollar-a-second for every moment they're on the field in order to have any prayer of being competitive (more to follow)
(b) physical requirements; I don't need to say anything other than this - Gary Noblett, [justifiably] praised by Pete as being one of the best paintballers of all time, just wouldn't cut it on today's tournament fields.
(c) boredom. Playing the game is no longer fun enough to justify its cost. Fields are cookie-cutter and basically the same from one tourney to the next, it's all the same game, and it's not holding anyone's attention.

(2) Incredible amount of effort put into trying to force-feed paintball into a television-friendly format, which is a pipe dream...and has led to the alienation as above.
Even if you have 3-on-3 games, which no one wants to PLAY, the statistics look like this: 27 different statistically-possible shootouts going on at any given time from two opposite ends of the field, from people behind bunkers with "bullets" that are invisible when looking from any vantage point that allows you to see the whole field at once. Bottom line: PAINTBALL WILL NEVER BE A TELEVISION-FRIENDLY SPORT, and the constant attempts to try and make this a reality are absolutely killing the tourney format. Mainstream audiences will never, ever set their TiVos or DVRs or come out to stadiums to watch it. Forget it. Accept it.

Sponsorship dollars dry up fast when the game doesn't hold anyone's attention. The industry is finding this out. So that leaves folks that WANT to spend money as the only other alternative. But those people no longer want to pay for the experience they're getting. It's expensive, it's frustrating, and the fun runs out fast. So much of the experience of the old style tournaments has gone the way of the Dodo.

The middle-aged working folks that fueled paintball's growth had the TIME, MONEY, and DESIRE to play paintball. Prizes were never important, nor was media exposure, or anything else. The fact that 95% of the teams that showed had no real chance to win the event didn't matter because it was a blast; you got at least six hard-fought games in against teams from all over the world, some pictures, bumped shoulders with industry figures and players from all walks of life, got to meet a few legends, hung out with your buds at a restaurant to chat about the day's events, and did it all without completely breaking the pocketbook. You looked forward to the snake hyperball field @ Chi-town or the Mounds fields in Pittsburgh, or seeing what kind of variety of fields would be @ the WC and how in the world you were going to play 'em. Tournaments during the golden age were fun because of (a) comraderie, (b) competition, (c) the overall tournament experience - i.e. town nightlife, hanging out, etc. This is why the MSPA in the southeastern US (as an example) was such a successful tournament series for so very long. It was affordable, fun, and manageable. But a very vocal minority of individuals got the idea in their heads that entry fees should be raised, prizes should be handed out, fields should be smaller and "more like the big series," etc., etc., etc., and wouldn't you know it...the longest-running tournament series IN THE WORLD at the time, a series that had thrived and produced some incredible talent over many, many years, was literally dead three seasons later.
What's the take-home message?
Forget about prizes, forget about media coverage, forget about outside sponsors and forget about making it spectator-friendly.
Tournament paintball will thrive when it caters first and foremost to those individuals who have the TIME, MONEY, and DESIRE to play.
Tournament paintball needs to go back to being PLAYER-driven; make the players happy, forget about trying to make it media friendly or get outside sponsors. Make the fields bigger, with wondrous variety. Allow the drawn out chess matches that permitted folks like Gary Noblett to shine even if they weren't the cut physical specimens because he optimized his own talents and abilities to the field and demands that he found himself facing. Look at what made paintball so popular around the turn of the Millenium, and compare that to the way things have moved, and it becomes clear.

I'm sure I'll be back later. Gotta run. Lotsa love, as always...