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UK Squads representing in the World Cup.

JF21

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May 4, 2007
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the thing peopl forget is the size of the us in comparison to the UK. i think you have to look at America in comparison to Europe.

Im not saying that euro ball is better than us, infat the majority of team making an impact are state side but you have to look at the statistics here.

NXL winners, Europe based
Div 1 winners euro based.
Div 2 grad are euro based and they are making an impact
div3 euro team place top 4
div 4 euro team make it to second round.


The event is state side and these teams are still making an impact in sheer numbers they are vastly out weighed by "local" teams. I think in this case credit where credit is due and we should be saying well done to everyone who made the effort and spent the last week training.

Sometimes i feel part of the problem with uk paintball is the negativity, this glass half empty mentality can only dishearten our paintball community. If we want to start making an impact at events i think we need to look at increasing the camaraderie and reducing the negativity.


but what do i know, all i do is play
 
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Robbo

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the thing peopl forget is the size of the us in comparison to the UK. i think you have to look at America in comparison to Europe.
Nope, nobody’s forgetting it at all, why would you even suggest such a thing, where is your evidence that people are forgetting, I’m certainly not.
And if you wanna quote stats, then why not go ask Marcus Davis, or even Sergey Leontiev or indeed anybody who has gained success in the US from much smaller playing pools.
[Russia’s paintball cherry picking pool was about one ten thousandth that of the US’s about 7 years ago]
In fact, don’t ask those two guys, go ask me, I’ll tell you ..... success abroad is all about talent, commitment and training.
You don’t need 300 million people to compete; you just need the right people in the right places.

Im not saying that euro ball is better than us, infat the majority of team making an impact are state side but you have to look at the statistics here.
NXL winners, Europe based
Div 1 winners euro based.
Div 2 grad are euro based and they are making an impact
div3 euro team place top 4
div 4 euro team make it to second round.
Oh my, you know what JF, one of the most quoted and certainly the most profound of all truisms is, ‘there are lies, monstrous lies and there are statistics’ ... that quote is generally directed toward people who actually know how to quote stats, I’m afraid your statistical example is ludicrous if it’s meant to be held up as European success.
And hold on here, since when has this discussion been concerned with Euro success?
We are talking about UK success here, I don’t give two fuhks about the Euros, I do care about us though.


The event is state side and these teams are still making an impact in sheer numbers they are vastly out weighed by "local" teams. I think in this case credit where credit is due and we should be saying well done to everyone who made the effort and spent the last week training.
By all means let’s celebrate achievement, it’s an integral and much-needed part of any competitive sport but we need to hang onto some semblance of perspective here otherwise we’ll all get lost in some gut-wrenching, flag-waving jamboree of American’esque jingoism.
What you quoted as statistically relevant has little if nothing to do with UK success in the states, nothing.
To quote real success you have to go back 7 years for real UK success in the US, and then if you wanna go back a few more years before that, Marcus Davis bashed the cr@p outa the Yanks with his Predator team, the most successful of all Brit teams in the US, NO argument!!!
You think Marcus would have listened to your rhetoric as reasons why he should stay in his place?
Nah, he wanted to compete and beat the Yanks, and that’s exactly what he did....
If we are truly serious about wanting to improve then we need to get real not silly.
When you talk about support, I think you are getting confused with ‘playing abroad’ and ‘competing abroad’ [as far as the UK is concerned], they are two distinctly different animals.

Sometimes i feel part of the problem with uk paintball is the negativity, this glass half empty mentality can only dishearten our paintball community. If we want to start making an impact at events i think we need to look at increasing the camaraderie and reducing the negativity.
Aha, at last you say something that makes some kinda sense and yes, you are actually right on this one, take a bow !
And I’m the world’s worst pessimist but there is method is my madness and if you just scratch the surface of possible reasons why I may take up this stance, then you might well glean the real reasons of just why I write some of the posts I do...... think about it JF !!!
You got involved in this thread because you wanted to protect UK ball from what you perceived as an unfair attack [and I 100% respect that in you] ... unfortunately mate, it wasn’t unfair at all if fair is bound up with truth in any way; it may not have been nice to hear but hey, who wants to hear they have a bogie the size of a walnut hanging from their nose?
Nobody does ... but the reality is, it’s best someone tells you ....
I don’t mind being the bad guy here just as long as people actually read what I write and also respect my qualification for being able to write what I do.
It’s only through lovely debate that certain views get aired .... of course I am gonna piss people off along the way because some people are extremely sensitive to criticism especially when that criticism is true .. in fact moreso when it’s true.
It’s one of life’s little curve balls I suppose ... nothing more.


but what do i know, all i do is play
Keep playing JF, Keep playing mate ....
 

SAMUEL.D.RYAN

one.man.band
Mar 17, 2007
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What do you suggest then?
I'm done with the "it's all gone to pot and there's nothing to be done about it" mentality.
Perhaps our obesity statistics have caught up with us and UK paintballers would rather be posting on a forum about how crap the scene has got.
 

Marc0

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Feb 18, 2004
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This thread was started to support and encourage the guys who had the balls and commitment to put their hands DEEP into their own pockets and travel with Twizz to Orlano to see what they could achieve.

This was done at their own expense as no "sponsor" was even approached to assist with funding the event.

They all trained hard and played harder gaining some frankly fantastic results and hopefully encoraging some more UK ballers to make the trip next season.

Once again however the thread has become a soapbox for some to slag off UK ball and reminise about the "good old days".

Frankly this has as much bearing to the UK ballers of today as who won the European football championship in those good old days have to any budding footballer.

I started this as a positive thread and want to end it the same way.

WELL DONE LADS, YOU DID US PROUD !

Laters :)
 
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Robbo

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What do you suggest then?
I'm done with the "it's all gone to pot and there's nothing to be done about it" mentality.
Perhaps our obesity statistics have caught up with us and UK paintballers would rather be posting on a forum about how crap the scene has got.

Try reading what I've read instead of reacting to what you think I've said ..... and when you do, try reading this thread and then try to form an understanding of what I'm up to here ...

Lord knows what the 'obesity' comment is meant to invoke but I'll ignore it for the time being and hopefully answer the question you seem to be posing.
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
This thread was started to support and encourage the guys who had the balls and commitment to put their hands DEEP into their own pockets and travel with Twizz to Orlano to see what they could achieve.

This was done at their own expense as no "sponsor" was even approached to assist with funding the event.

They all trained hard and played harder gaining some frankly fantastic results and hopefully encoraging some more UK ballers to make the trip next season.

Once again however the thread has become a soapbox for some to slag off UK ball and reminise about the "good old days".

Frankly this has as much bearing to the UK ballers of today as who won the European football championship in those good old days have to any budding footballer.

I started this as a positive thread and want to end it the same way.

WELL DONE LADS, YOU DID US PROUD !

Laters :)
Normally, I'd take the time out to answer you but it's obvious my response would be falling on less than fertile ground and so I'm not even going to bother; basically, your post doesn't deserve a response mainly because you don't know what the hell you are talking about .. all you are effectively doing is waving a flag ....

What is also obvious is your complete lack of appreciation of what I'm going on about and also what's relevant here ...Still, you carry on waving that ole flag of yours Marco ... I'm sure both you and mediocrity will make fine bedfellows.
 

Robbo

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i don't think its a case of settling for things, i am one of the most competitive people i know, and most on here who know me would say the same! However what i am is a realist!
Adam, If you a realist [and I'll take you at your word here] then it isn't coming across in what you post.
Realism has at its heart, a correct and proportionate appraisal [and expectation] of the state of UK ball both in terms of performance level and also [more importantly] our mindset.
I don't think you have shown this in what you write, not yet anyway.

To regularly go across the pond to play ball is a far flung dream for nearly everyone in English paintball, even European ball!
the sheer cost of flights and accomodation alone before you shoot a ball is far above what many can afford, especially playing domestically all year, or in europe.
100% agreed, it is a dream for most and it's a dream I also respect in our players but it seems you are not picking up on the distinction I am drawing between playing and competing.
Whilst we can all have aspirations to play in the US, it takes a certain mindset to wanna compete.
However, what you say is correct in the attendant expenses required but doesn't that then come down to dedication and commitment?

The past isn't always nostalgic for god's sake, its' there as a precedent for us all to reference if the need be.
It can serve as a guide if we so choose, it can also serve as a tutorial if we know how to interpret but to ignore it as that idiot Marco suggests is folly indeed.
That said, teams used to fund their own way across to the US; ask Twizz, he knows, the Tigers of yesteryear all paid their own way when they went Stateside, as did many other teams.

Just because it's expensive doesn't mean we are then precluded from ever going, it just makes it more difficult but then again, who said competing at the top, or at least aspiring to, was gonna be easy?

The few teams that have done it recently are all massively sponsored, and even those have been cut back on the extravagances!
Agreed again, even teams like Nexus have no real paint deal, they now have to buy their paint now [AFAIK], times have changed but why aren't people looking upon that as a leveler in that if teams like Nexus are having to pay, then why can't anybody else?
...but I do agree, it's difficult for sure but certainly not impossible as history as shown.


Prior to this era, ok days of old i can accept a couple of english team did ok out there, but for how long and how well did they really do?! In my honest opinion the level it was played at back 4-5 years ago has been surpassed by even some of the average teams in the uk!
The duration of their success is academic mate, the fact is, they went and did it ... nobody can undo that.
Success is fleeting for most people, you don't not compete just because your success might be short-lived ... come on Adam, that's not really a point that needs to be answered here.
As for comparing the playing level to 4 or 5 years ago?
First off, you are wrong, secondly, it's academic anyway.
The Nexus team of say 2003 would easily dispatch, and I mean easily beat any average teams ... that's not even up for debate.

I will concede however, that the average CPL team would beat the Nexus of 2003 and so in that sense, the playing level has improved but we are not talking about playing levels here, we are talking about aspirations to compete.
It's ludicrous to compare playing levels of yesteryear to another age anyway, it just serves no purpose because teams can only beat the teams in front of them at that time ....


The biggest comparison is the level between usa and the uk talent, however it is very relevant to the size of the talent pool available in the countries!
I think there are some really good players in the uk, that with the resources and coaching that only on or 2 english teams have right now, could easily rival the top european teams!
If you read this post I made in another thread [this thread], then you will see that I agree with you, and that's the crying shame of it all ...


Nostalgia with old results of uk being on top gets us nowhere really, unless someone like yourself is willing to take a team and create what it is you want to see?
It's NOT nostalgia mate, it's referencing an informational resource: if you have the necessary intellect and understanding of our sport, then you can use the past to better understand the present, and predict the future; this is not some convenient platitude here, it's my experience talking.
I've done an awful lot in this sport for the UK Adam and whilst that doesn't guarantee a coherent understanding, I have to marry my experience and whatever intellect I can summon to try and point us in the right direction.
Some people, won't ever be helped because they either have agendas outside of what's being discussed or are unable to summon up the necessary neuron firing that's required to understand.

Paintball at competition level has outpriced itself to almost all those except who the industry choose to really promote!
Ahhh, good point, a really good one, and it's not one I can argue with; my response is, I am gonna nod my head in agreement.
....but once again Adam, this doesn't make it impossible, it just makes it harder.
I hope this thread, regardless of what the thread subject initially started out as, has pricked people's mindsets .... in the thread I linked you to, I was pointing people toward the fact we have an untapped talent out there, I think from what I saw, that if I extrapolate correctly, we could service something like 7 or 8 teams that could easily survive in the CPL if trained correctly .. it would take 6 months at most.
THAT's what I wanna see !!!!!
And if a couple of idiots in this thread [not you Adam] could just see past their ignorance for one second, they would realise what I'm up to here .... but they can't and so I will concern myself with those who can understand and appreciate what I am talking about, and of course what I hope to achieve.
Good post Adam ... there's hope yet :)
 

Robbo

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Yep, waving the flag :) and proud to be doing it !

Pretty positive don't you think.

Laters :)
Are you suggesting I am not patriotic?

I'm all for being positive Marco but is preferable when it's appropriate .... and once again, you are ignoring the distinction I am drawing between playing and competing.
Also, If you are gonna try and rebut me in any way then do me the honour of at least reading what I have written and I'll then cross my fingers in the hope you may understand some of it.
 

SAMUEL.D.RYAN

one.man.band
Mar 17, 2007
1,513
76
73
Cambridge/Huntingdon
Try reading what I've read instead of reacting to what you think I've said ..... and when you do, try reading this thread and then try to form an understanding of what I'm up to here ...

Lord knows what the 'obesity' comment is meant to invoke but I'll ignore it for the time being and hopefully answer the question you seem to be posing.
I have read and understood what you have written, but it seems to hint that there is more happening that you are not telling us.

The last comment was more of a joke, and it's not pointed at anyone at all (lord knows i'm not the slimmest guy in the game).

I tried to make my post as neutral and inoffensive as possible while still hopefully giving all the figures in UK ball a reason to put aside their differences and sort out the mess that we're all in. I'm relatively new to this game and for the things that you and other big names in the UK have done I have respect. Despite this, I think that more collaborative efforts in the face of negativity and unnecessary grudges would speed up this whole process.
I'm a big fan of positivity.

Going to stop posting now before I say something silly, but feel free to PM me.