UK Press Release

[BigKris]

I'm not a site owner, just a player who's played woods-ball for years and just starting to play SupAir before I’m too old......so here's my 2 pence worth:

From experience in other sports, regulation is the key to everything. At the moment SupAir is going in the right direction, and this in turn needs to be applied to woods ball. As you say Robbo, I can bet that about 90% of people on this forum started on a woods ball field.

At the moment woods ball is not seen as a serious area for ballers, and as a player I can see why. There is no standard, no control and hardly any regulation. From what I can see, a percentage of site owners of woods ball fields just want first time punters anyway......they pay top price for the paint and never to play again until the next stag do or birthday a couple of years down the line.....but business keeps rolling in from these days so its ok! As a one off day, the cost is justifiable so please read on and don't think I'm saying you are over charging as I'm not. However even when these players do play again, chances are it will be at a different field. At all the various fields I've played in my time, from all the forms I've filled out, I've NEVER received an email, a telephone call or mail shot telling me of a walk-on day or offer to play there again.

I can bet that at least one person in one of the groups mentioned above wants to play again, but when they've just paid £50 for a day and 500 balls, chances are they're thinking its not a 'hobby' they can afford. I'm not blaming site owners here - they have to make a profit, and without these guys, the sport would die. There needs to be that next level of play available, and at the moment its not there. I'll come back to this point later.

Paint prices need to come down so that they can charge a reasonable price for the paint and get some repeat business. Just take a look at the profit of the paint companies on the web. Why should they drop the price though? Things are going fine just the way they are from their position. It’s all about balance and at the current prices; I don't think the sport will grow like it has the potential to do so. It will continue at its current plateau, the number of people leaving the sport directly proportional to those who enter, without any real growth.

Back to regulation.

I think that every marshal before being allowed to step onto a field should have been on a short training course and hold some kind of certificate maybe from the UKPSF or other governing body saying that they are a qualified marshal.

Air/C02 training. Every site owner, or employee who will be filling should have been given training and hold a certificate to prove this.

Random site checks for crono limits and safety etc.

The list could go on for a bit so I'll just stop there at the most obvious ones.


As for taking woods ball to the next level why can't some sort of league be set up within a certain district or county? A and B teams made up from site regulars, playing home and away games. Players will experience other sites, site owners will be able to compare notes and that's when standards will rise.

For example, 6 sites come together. Each month one site will hold the league day. Points system etc and the teams play it out. It works in a similar fashion for all other sports so why not woods ball? Yes sites still keep their walk-ons and punter days, but by doing this it would be taking woods-ball to that next level that is desperately needed in the UK.

All other sports operate like this, and as far as cricket and rugby are concerned I know that fields are evaluated regularly, and unless they are in top condition with regards to the facilities etc, their teams are not allowed to be promoted higher league of that area. It encourages standards not just from the site owners, but from the players. Meetings are held and sub committees are set up in order to regulate and develop the sport under the bigger umbrella. I'm boring myself now.

Feel free to slate me........

Amen,amen and amen. I've only been back into paintball for a short time after a long lay off . When i used to play years ago there was at least some sort of woodland leagues (a few if i remember rightly) and at least one big "championship" (Mayhem Masters) . Now there seems to be nothing for woodland players except walkon days or scenario games.

This is only my personal,probably rather naive observation, but a culture seems to have developed whereby the psychology is: "woods are for messing about and tournament ball is now for the 'sup air field only".

Woodland play seems to have been relegated to a "feeder" activity where players can move "up" from the quaint woodland to the glory of full blown competition on the field full of inflatables where the serious players are.

With respect,for alot of us who remember back 12-15 years ago this is kind of a screwy concept .

I know alot of the more recent comers to paintball have no point of reference to work from and will probably balk at this,but surely for paintball to thrive and indeed ultimately survive as a sport it must retain its dynamism in terms of competitive play,and the tournament/league/division model with its consumate regulations and structure surely must be found both in the woods and on the speedball field.

Even reducing this to soley commercial terms surely the industry as a whole will benefit from robust,firmly established competitive circuits which cater for players from both sides of the fence.

Otherwise the eggs look rather precariously "in one basket". Just my personal observation.

As i've said before ad nauseum,attracting new players is obviously paramount,but RETAINING players has to be equally important in terms of the paintballs longevity as a viable,competitive sport

At the moment it looks like alot of folks are coming to the sport through the woods,perhaps not wanting to get into speedball,finding no structure or measure of success in the woods,running round the woods for a year or so and then selling their kit.

Structured competitive play with measurable results (in the form of tournaments leagues etc) has got to be the key.


Pete,as you were around in those days of woodland tourneys at the highest levels both sides of the pond,can i ask what your view is on this subject in the context of this thread?

And can i ask how you see the future of woodland tournaments in the UK?

right i've rambled on enough. Fantastic news by the way to hear that there are efforts to get back on track. More power to you all. I wish you every success. For all our sakes.

Chris

 

[wgmikeyr]

It most certainly isn't a Sup'Air federation and will attempt to cater for and promote all forms of paintball enjoyed in the UK.
We are acutely aware there is an extremely close relationship between woods-ball and tourney ball; for the most part, that's where the event ballers are born.

As for what's in it for woods-ballers?
Well, we first need to acknowledge there is a growing movement to hold events in the woods, and it would be these type events, as well as big game events that could well choose to come under our banner for sanctioning.

Remember, sanctioning has a two way benefit for the event itself and the board, and let's not forget the players here, they will be attending an event that has value for money and is accountable in terms of standards, safety and judging; if it doesn't meet those standards, then it won't be sanctioned, end of!

I hope this answers your question Andy ...

I'm all for promoting the sport across it's many facets so I'm not here to start the 'our type of paintball is better than yours' argument (which is completely pointless any way!!). New players coming into this sport, whichever variety they want to play, is the only way any of us will still be playing in the future. At the end of the day paintball is a business and like all businesses, it needs new customers to survive.

But I do have a question. As I dyed in the wool Scenario player can I just ask for some clarification on the term 'Woods-ball'. Is it just referring to Woodland tournaments or is this term being used to include Scenario games as well? If the answers obvious and I've missed it, I apologise now.

Good luck to all with this new venture!!

 

[Robbo]

Pete,as you were around in those days of woodland tourneys at the highest levels both sides of the pond,can i ask what your view is on this subject in the context of this thread?

And can i ask how you see the future of woodland tournaments in the UK?

Chris

The whole idea of 'woodsball' has become distorted, and this has happened because of the emergence of the open arena events we now have, or rather the people who play them.

What was once the only serious competitive environment has now been relegated (in some people's heads) to a less serious area of our sport.

To a certain extent, this is understandable because we have evolved, moved on, and there is not much point indulging in nostalgia.
Point is, those days of woodland events, were much more enjoyable for many reasons, and I for one, would support any move back into the green stuff if only to promote a better environment for people to play in.

And as I have said, we need these woodland type events to soft-land people from punterball otherwise we crash-land them straight into Air-ball which doesn't do anybody any favours as our decreasing team population suggests.

As to the future of woods-ball events?
If I put my uk federation hat on, then I'm all for them mate, and I think, everybody sat around the table with me is of the same mind.

 

[Biscuit]

big kris you are maybe looking for something like this www.nobattlepack.com which is run by bully,who is a member of the board like robbo,now if robbo could talk to bully and see if they could get some southern sites to do a similar series,down south it could help.as these events have gone on, more teams have joined especially new ones,as it is cheap and fun,plus having the likes of dan maskell and sam keats doing pro clinics for the teams for free if you had done 3 events was a good idea.alot of the new teams this year are all thinking of entering a couple of masters events aswell,as they don,t feel as intimidated at doing this now after the slower paced introduction to tournie paintball they have had.this as also popped up www.thejcsacademy.co.uk which also caters for all types of paintball and you get free pro clinics aswell,but why is this all happening up north and seemingly not down south

 

[chrizwheatley]

I always think its strange to read people saying for want of a better word... bring back woodsball.

Chris Bird ran a great ionman series of events with alternating woods and air as a hybrid. There was no real support offered to him in fairness and it cost the guy a fortune.

It was ref'd by the UKRefs which are world known as superb refs and truthfully the event was great however not a great deal of teams supported or played it.

The thing that always pops to my head is when its gone everybody wants it, when its there nobody plays it.

He introduced many teams to air and the tournament scene but didnt receive all the support he could have from the big names which ultimately led to its demise

I for 1 attended every single event in both the woods and air flavour and enjoyed it loads (sorry i reffed 1 event as the rules dictated we could not field a team) the pace was great and very close games ment everyone enjoyed it no matter what level they play at which in turn made a friendly and positive atmosphere

 

[Ainsley]

The future must be the synergy of both areas of balling - one cannot survive without the other, and I really believe this. As I said before, structure and regulation are going to be the driving factors in the growth we wish to achieve, as well as sites working together to a certain degree in order to achieve this.

I'm just a player with a love for the sport as a whole, and would gladly give up my spare time to provide any help in making this possible. It’s not going to happen overnight and it will take far more than one man to do it, but as support on here so far shows, we are all looking in the same direction.

Ains

 

[Biscuit]

the biggest problem shadlad had was location of site just to far for a lot of people to go

 

[BigKris]

Hello.

So many more posts since yesterday,its really very interesting to hear peoples points of view.Thankyou for sharing them.

I think after reading all the contributions one thing is perhaps becoming clearer to me as a person with a fresh pair of eyes and ears returning to paintball after many years on ice.(Although perhaps i need glasses,i dunno!? )

I've been scooting around various places both out on the ground and in cyberspace trying to get a handle on where everything is at at the moment.
Call it catching up with developments.

Please bear in mind this is only an observation and feel free to debate,argue or tell me im talking out of my ar5e. I come in peace..maaaan.

As I said I might be talking out of my proverbial here but people appear to have expended great effort and resources into getting this venture or that venture off the ground and it appears much of that effort has become negated or fizzled out in the mid to long term timescale because of lack of support (which i take to mean from players and the industry in varying natures and degrees) .

From what i've read,heard and observed in the short time i've been back there has been little large scale unified,co-ordinated and concerted effort between entities and much of the expenditure of resources,time,passion and money,blood,sweat and tears and lord knows what else has lead to little long term gain in terms of cementing something truly solid and homogeneous.

Kind of a "divided we stand,divided we fall" situation in many respects when you reduce it down to its consumate level.

Efforts appear at first glance at least to be largely isolated,independant ventures with a smattering of leagues and divisions in certain areas of paintball.

I find it kind of a bitter irony that going back many,many years(in alot of cases longer than some of the newest players have been alive!)paintballers have tried to establish their chosen passtime as a recognised sport,and yet have generally adopted,or been able to institute very little of the tried and tested methods used by most other sports to ensure the unity,consistency and ultimate longevity of their competitive events .

If one uses the example of other sports in the UK which are,for the most part subject to national,or even international regulatory bodies which sanction competitive events,standardise competitive rules,safety standards,liase with industry infrastructure,apply refereeing standards and such like,then its not a massive leap of logic to see why competitive paintball is perhaps moving a step closer to the point of disarray. Perhaps this last part is over dramatic,i dont know.

The opening post of this thread has announced something which is truly a very long time coming for paintball. And judging by the current climate on the whole,Baller politics aside I think its a no brainer that this is the right way to go.Very likely all things considered it is the ONLY way to go.

Ulitimately though it is the fabric of paintball -the player,that must endorse and support this bold move.

Count me in for one.

 

[BigKris]

As an afterthought: is the situation in the UK the same as say in continental europe or the US? And if not how are they doing things differently? Are there any lessons to be learnt from outside the UK scene?

 

[Bedlam]

I was going to stay out of this and watch from the sidelines, but I have come to realise that I can't. In fact, if you are reading this post, you can't either. What happens now with the UKPBF and the future is all our concerns, whether we be site owner, industry or player and the posts on this thread have, on the whole, been positive.

I am not a football man, in fact, I can't stand the game. (Stay with me on this though ). But I figured at some point, as BigKris has said, football in this country underwent the same metamorphosis that paintball is now undergoing. I have chosen my words carefully because I realise now, whatever happens we cannot please all the people all of the time. We can at least listen to what they have to say and I firmly believe that the player base is as important, if not more so, than the industry. I should clarify that a little, I mean ALL players, be you Pro, woodsballer, scenario, sup air. We cannot split hairs over who is governed and who is not or our sport will go the way of boxing and wind up with many governing bodies.

To continue my football analogy, I checked the FA's website FA rules and regs. The gulf between paintball now and where we need to be is huge, but I am prepared to support it, as long as the UKPBF listen to everything that is being said. I know that some decisions have already been made and I am not privy to the machinations or decision-making process, so can only comment on my observations.

I believe our sport stands on a knife edge, between becoming what we all want and its sad demise. I do not care if it sounds dramatic, but I want to play paintball and I want to see a future for our sport, all of it. Lets hope that 2009 heralds a new beginning for paintball.