UK Nov/Am teams, help please !

[Russell Smith]

To make it clear

I think in my endeavour to splurt out my offerings and ideas I think i've just failed to get across the basic's of what I want you all to consider.

Football - eleven men a side and one ball, So the only difference is skill.

Cricket - same again !.

Rugby, Tennis, Formula one motor racing, Indy car, Golf, Whatever sport you want to think about, When they get on the field/track the only thing that separates the competitor's is what I keep harping on about - ability.

That's right plain and simple aquired skill, So what I'm suggesting is not so strange in any sport.

And it IS a sport so lets make the thing level so the skill shines thru.
So again I propose that both teams at the start of a game have the same amount of paint I think 2500 per seven man to be divided as they wish is plenty, And yes Nick the guys at the back (if they are good enough) make the front players look good but that should be down to them reading the game not the fact that they can afford to not stop shooting from start to finish.
And just to make this point clear I do not just mean novice and am's events but all.
Lets make it even and let the most skillful teams win.

Russell



Ian - sorry I'm using your thread but the It seemed the right place to make my point.

 

[ascutt]

Hmmm...lets just ;look at those examples....

Russell,

Lets have a closer look at your examples:
Football - Yes, maybe on the field the only difference is skill but it is sponsorship and kmoney that acrue that skill, do you think a player would elect to go to a non-league team or Man U (spit)? Obviously he would go where the money is, where the training facilities are better, where there are bigger crowds. You can not say that the only difference between say Man U and Kettering Town is skill.
Cricket - Its the same, if Surrey played some amateur Sunday team it is nbot just the skill mis-match that shows, the money to train, pay players, training ground eetc seperates them.
Formula 1 - this is the biggest joke on your list. Do you really think that Micheal Shoemakers' only difference over Alonso is just the skill, that is very niave. I have been to McClaren and seen how much cash goes into to design/development/testing etc and that is the massive margin between teams.

Skill is a factor but it is very rarely the only factor.

I have played tournament paintball for 10 years and have, at different times and teams, had paint sponsorship. Does it make a difference? Of course it does, it means that my team can practice more, it means that for little extra a month we can play twice. I cant remember the time when we stopped shooting the same amounts of paint. I am commited to my paintball and have spent a small fortune over the 10 years to get where I am now. I have worked hard praticing and travelling to play paintball, and my reward now is great support from my teams sponsors. I object to your implication that just because we are spnsored, we must shoot more paint and thats the only reason we win. It isn't, we shoot as much paint as our playing style, opposition and field dictates and, until recently, we picked up the tab for that ourselves.
If you are committed to becoming a better player and improving your team then the cost is surely a lesser worry than practice and the team. Everyone in sport has had to make sacrifices at times to get better, its always easier to moan about the differences between opponents and much harder to work at reducing those differences.

Back onto this topic I think everyone would agree that the Millenium series is THE European tournament series at the moment and that the UK isn't well represented there, we need more 7 man Supair tournaments where Nov,Am and Pro play each other along the same lines as the Millenium Series. Maybe then we can have 3-4 UK teams in the semis of each section at every event - look at the Scandanavians - they are domminant at the moment and practice loads and if you think paintball is expensive in the UK you hsould see what they are paying in Sweden or Norway!!



Scutty

 

[Russell Smith]

Let me try just one last time.
Of course teams will be in different leagues when it comes to quality.
My analogy with F1 is perfect if you look at it as i intended.
Yes shouey is better than Alonso, But the teams are only allowed two cars, Can only use four tyres at a time and the same size engine.
So it comes down to skill and engineering excellence.
So why can not paintball be the same.
Same amount of players - yes
Same amount of markers - yes
Same size engine cc - If they can afford it ?
And I totally agree the bigger teams who have the best players will always attract better sponsors but at the moment very few teams get cash for flights ect let alone training fees.
Now you say you have played for ten years well let me ask you how many players have you seen leave the sport because of the cost or how many mates have said they can not make this event or that event or will have to miss the next month's playing because they are saving up to afford one of the major events coming up.
I am not saying the more paint you shoot the more successful you will be but if one team has only got the same as the other team at the start the better team wins because of Skill and engineering excellence !!!.
All I am saying is lets talk about it And lets look at the bigger picture, Think of the players who have left the game and now think of the extra teams who would be out there.
And like you i've been in the game for more than i care to admit and when i started to play we paid 15p per ball (thank god we only had splats) so yes its changed but now lets move on.

 

[ascutt]

Arghh! but......

Russell

I just don't see how you think that limited paint will make the changes you seem to think. I have palyed in limited paint tournaments and never really noticed a big difference. It just seems to be a strange idea of levelling the playing field. As an alternative we could all pay the same price for paint!! Whoop!! NOT! How about limiting the paint to all that you can carry?

One thing I don't think you've thought of is event sponsorship - can you see any paint manufacturer sponsoring a limited paint tournament, I think they'd rather sponsor anything but that!

In response to your posting here are a couple of thoughts -

Formula One - Yes, Ferrari and Minardi have two cars each, four wheels per car and are limited to the same cc in the engine but come on, there is equlity there, my gran could beat Alonso when sat in that Ferrari!!
People leaving the Sport - Yes, some leave, some arrive and lots stay. If poeple say they leave this sport because of cost I believe it is more down to a lack of commitment and higher priorities else where. I am commited to trying to become a world class player and use all my annual leave and spare cash to play all over the world (this annoys my wife but she does understand that it takes that level of commitment to succeed).

If you want to play 'for fun' tournaments then do limited paint, If you want to play with the big boys and get better then dig deep, put in the commitment and play 'full-on' paintball.



Scutty

 

[Russell Smith]

Scutty

I have already said I dont mean a hopper per player and I do mean limiting the amount you can carry.
And as for the paint companys sponsoring an event give me a break what do you think you got from them at any of the recent events you've been to it's all lip service and we have to gain outside cash to move on.
I do not want it to be only used at "fun tournements" but all, Just like you can only use one gun each at every event.
I think we have a lot more in common than you care to admit.
Harping back to sponsors i remember back in the old mayems when the event was "sponsored" by RPS and JT ect ect.
The entry fee was £700 per team inc gas,the paint (site paint only) was £100 per box So what did they give me !.
Because my pocket knew what i gave them.
The marshals used to get a pair of new goggles and pants WOW but if you knew what they got paid well need i say more.
I think we agree on more things than not and look forward to having a chat at campaign see and I will try once again to make you understand what I mean.

 

[ascutt]

OK, timeout

Russell,

We'll have a chat at Campaign then and let it lie now.


Scutty

 

[ascutt]

has the world stopped spinning?

Nick,

Does this mean you actually agree with me on something?!!?


Arghhh,.....the shock!!!



Scutty

 

[Red_Merkin]

tourney set up

Clive does a fairly good job of organising tourneys at the Temple, you should attend his and see what how he handels it.
I think 8 games is about right, and good turn around between games is esential. it's easier to get a team to play a five man, but if it's a big event like the Millenium Series, 7 man is better.
what you also need is an entry level division for teams that are starting out. You shoudn't expect players that are new to tourneys to have to play against a team that are going to ahnilate them in the first minute, it'll just put them off paintball. You should also give a team at least half of their games against teams in their own division, so that they get a fair shot at winning some games, but that they also play some harder teams to liven things up.
Air on site is a must, and i'd suggest that you have a top up system (genesis or something like that) because of the number of players investing in 4500psi systems.
Supair and Concept are a must, as are good netting and a safe place for spectators.
Hope this helps,
Red.

 

[Russell Smith]

Nic

All the analogy's were used to try and show examples of other sports having a type of equality.
Now I offer you an appology because it is quite obvious I failed to make what i was saying clear to you.
If you manage to read my post again I never proposed we all drive round the fields trying to throw footballs at each other.
And since you mentioned it since you are one of the many who use 1000 balls per game are you saying you do not have talent but your opponent must have plenty, Do you doubt your own ability to do your job with say 500 ?.
Now I ask you this if you are in a game and you can not fire none stop can your front players not do there job ?.
I trust and hope you realise i am not taking the piss but desperately attempting to get you all to look at the bigger picture.
Yes cheaper paintball will be great but I dont think it would be enough to make that much of a difference at first.
What it will stop (and i suspect this is why you seem to be against it) is the non-stop barrage of paint and allow better movment and lets not forget we are trying to make this game more TV friendly.

And as for your point about others teams being ready to challenge for the top ranks if the paint was limited to some degree.
Are you not prepared to find out.


So please feel free to post your reply but lets try and keep it focused on the one point.

 

[Russell Smith]

Wow Over 24 hours and no reply.
Although thiis might be a record for Nic, What about the rest of you.
Read all the post and offer your opinion on if both teams should start the games with the same amount of paint in total, And what amount do you think would be OK.