UK:call for tighter control on air guns

[markh]

Just seen a report on BBC news 24 which may impact UK paintballers. UK trading standards have called for tighter controls on “air guns”. By air guns they were referring to the type which fire a small metal pellet. The report said there has been a rise in the number of injuries from such weapons, and one death. This is mainly due to children/teenagers taking pot shots at people. They want to restrict the selling of these guns to those over seventeen, to reduce this trend. Fair enough, but we in the paintball community should be careful that any change in law does no inadvertently restrict the rights of generally sensible paintball players.

I remember something about Italy imposing some restrictions on air guns which hit paintballers.

BBC website has a report on this subject, but its from 25th March 2002

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1888000/1888038.stm

Anyone know anything further about this ?

 

[Scotty D]

Tighter controls

I think a while back my team mate "Big Sid" sent a letter to PGI suggesting the possible use of some sort of control for PB guns. I may be wrong but I think his idea was thet to buy a Paintball marker you had to be registered with th UKPSF.
No member number no marker.

At the time he wrote it he only suggested it to try and prove that Paintballers were actually sensible and on the ball.

If tighter controls do come in for airguns then this may be the only way to go.

 

[TJ Lambini]

From what I understand of UK firearms laws

You can own an airgun under 12 footpounds off ticket - any more power and you need a Firearms Certificate. There have been regular calls for all airguns to go on-ticket due to the number of cases of airgun abuse by kids, so the Govt may make people register them as firearms in the future. Pball guns may go tha same way.

I don't think this would be a bad thing personally - I mean, we got toddlers with uzis over here in LA now...

 

[manike]

TJ the gun laws and enforcements here are very different in the states and are almost a joke but in the opposite way to yours. The controls here are too tight in my opinion in many respects and they are always lobbying to tighten them further.

We already have laws coverning the use of these air weapons (and firearms) but the trouble is they are not enforced like they should be. So instead of enforcing them and penalising those who break the law, they try and create stricter controls thinking it will make those who already break the law now follow it?

The only people these measures affect are the ones who are responsible anyway. And they/we are not the problem

Bare in mind that if they do look to change the law there is a significant risk that such changes may detrimentally involve paintball markers. The home office does not really know what is involved in the use of modern paintball markers (rof etc.) and may inadvertently capture them in any changes they make. I have heard of issues to do with energy per second transferred to a target (which would screw us over big time). I'm not sure whether it is better to inform them or just keep quiet in the corner.

It's certainly an issue for the UKPSF to look into.

manike

 

[TJ Lambini]

Um...

I don't see a problem with having all airguns on a firearms' certificate, and all pball guns too...in fact I only see benefits.

You may have laws covering airguns, but you don't have laws preventing an iresponsible teen from buying an airgun and taking potshots at his buds/animals whatever. IF you make everyone who wants a firearm take the time to get a certificate, which they have to aply for in writing to the local police force, and attend a mandatory safety breifing/training course, you will immediately stop a good amount of airguns getting into tha hands of fools. However, if someone really wants to get into firearms and shoot in a law-abiding way, filling in a form and having their details on record with tha police shouldn't bother them...

 

[Mr_Toads_Wild_Ride]

When i bought my BB gun i had to fill in a form that registered the guns serial number to me and inclueded all my details age, address stuff like that and was given to the local police. This should be used in all marker sales to protect players that only use their markers to play paintball and not take shots at old women or cats.

I have seen 3 trains to date covered in paintball hits going through wimbledon towards sutton.

 

[manike]

Um...

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
I don't see a problem with having all airguns on a firearms' certificate, and all pball guns too...in fact I only see benefits.

Apart from the fact that it is almost impossible for the average person here to get a firearms certificate...

Therefore you would have very few people here playing paintball. It would kill the UK sport cold dead with no come back.

As I said before it's very different to the states. I believe it's much simpler to be able to own a rifle in the USA. In the UK it's very hard (it has to be approved on individual case by the police forces, you have to prove reason (not easy currently and I see no-one making it more lax just for paintballers!) and right to use and you have to keep it locked in a high level safety box.

And to own a pistol is impossible (and many paintball guns would be defined as pistols and thus impossible to own due tothe removable stocks). Pbguns would be classed under air weapons here mostly so it's the same thing whether they do it to pbguns or air weapons.

The very LAST thing we want here is to require a firearms certificate to own and use a paintball marker! In fact a voluntary scheme started by the UKPSF may be a way out and help us to regulate ourselves, then if it came to enforcement by the government we may be able to allow us to be deamed seperate and have a registration for paintball markers which is NOT a fire arms cert.

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
but you don't have laws preventing an iresponsible teen from buying an airgun and taking potshots at his buds/animals whatever.

yes we do, that is illegal already.

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
IF you make everyone who wants a firearm take the time to get a certificate, which they have to aply for in writing to the local police force, and attend a mandatory safety breifing/training course, you will immediately stop a good amount of airguns getting into tha hands of fools. However, if someone really wants to get into firearms and shoot in a law-abiding way, filling in a form and having their details on record with tha police shouldn't bother them...

LMAO, you assume it is as easy to get a firearms certificate here as it is in the states.

As pointed out above. Most PB markers if classed as firearms and thus requiring a firearm certificate would immediately be illegal weapons and then there is no chance in hell of anyone having them. This is due to their pistol nature. The fact they 'autoload' with a magazine of over 2 rounds... etc. All extremely prohibited items. Getting a firearms cert for such items is nigh on impossible. I think you have to be a registered dealer to do such... and to get that is well... rocking horse **** is easier to find

We must avoid being lumped in with firearms certs at all costs. We need to have our own set of regulations and if possible seperate to Air weapons also (but they may be hard to get).

This is an issue we need to tread very carefully around.

manike

 

[TJ Lambini]

you misunderstand me...

As I understand it, the UK Govt. is looking to increase tha age limit for owning a sub-12 footpund airgun to 17...so irresponsible teens CAN currently buy an airgun.

Also, I am not suggesting a current FAC situation; as and when airguns get put on ticket I enbvisage it will be on a modified FAC, which pball guns could also come under. And they wouldn't be illegal - y'all can currently buy and shoot airpistols over there at the moment I believe - it's only firearms which have length restrictions.

What I see happening is airguns and pball getting registered and licensed, simple as that.

As for your current laws, I think it's a good thing that you have to show good reason to own a gun and shoot it a minimum amount of times, and it's a good thing that you have to keep em in locked cases.

As Mr Toad sez, if you have to register BBS, why not pball guns?

The days of trying to fly under tha radar are over...

 

[Dannefaerd]

This is potentially a big issue - and it's something that we in New Zealand would follow pretty closely to see which way it falls.

We're lucky that recently we've managed to get a good relationship with the police going - and even have a joint communication strategy going between the police and the national paintball association.

http://www.police.govt.nz/resources/2001/firearms_info_08_paintguns.pdf - the link to the joint document if you're interested.

It's probably worth pooling the relevant information from all countries where paintball is played to see where there is common ground and what we can do to support each other. I know that Pete Martin is doing this for the Australian laws (where Tag is basically illegal in some states in any form).

Anyone wants to flick stuff through for their country please send it to dannefaerd@paradise.net.nz .

 

[manike]

you misunderstand me...

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
As I understand it, the UK Govt. is looking to increase tha age limit for owning a sub-12 footpund airgun to 17...so irresponsible teens CAN currently buy an airgun.

Nope. Currently only people over 17 CAN BUY an airgun. the law is as follows.

"Any person under the age of 14 years of age may not purchase or own guns or ammunition.

Persons aged between 14 and 17 years MAY NOT purchase guns or ammunition but may borrow or have them purchased on their behalf by some one OVER 17 years of age.

Persons OVER the age of 17 years may purchase guns and ammunition, the guns having a power less than the UK legal limit. "

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
Also, I am not suggesting a current FAC situation; as and when airguns get put on ticket I enbvisage it will be on a modified FAC, which pball guns could also come under. And they wouldn't be illegal -

TJ I appreciatewhat you are saying, but we want to stay well away from FAC's. We want our own seperate scheme. I have no problem with registering paintball markers or air rifles but not as Firearms of any sort. They are not. They should be registered and treated seperately as sports equipment or something. It may only seem like a small difference but could make a huge difference in this crazy country of ours next time the lobbyists have a knee jerk reaction.

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
y'all can currently buy and shoot airpistols over there at the moment I believe - it's only firearms which have length restrictions.

There are length restrictions on airweapons also (and in theory paintball markers and this has been an issue before! where in Scotland all markers had to have a very low velocity) the law says...

"Airguns in the UK are subject to the firearms acts, under the Firearms (Dangerous air weapons) rules 1969 they are classified as low powered Air Weapons and as such they are restricted to a maximum power of 12 foot pounds force for a rifle and 6 foot pounds force for a pistol. Above 12ftlb a rifle is classified as a Section 1 Firearm and requires a licence called a firearms certificate, and a pistol above 6ftlb is again a Section 1 Firearm requiring a firearms certificate in the UK. "

I need to find the rules about the difference between pistols and rifles but if I remember rightly many markers can and will fit into the pistol description... (due to removeable stocks and barrels and barrel lengths etc.) which means theymay already be pushing the rules since they do have over 6ft/lbs energy.

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
What I see happening is airguns and pball getting registered and licensed, simple as that.

Sounds fine to me just keep it seperate to firearms. I would love and welcome with open arms our own classification and registration as long as it is developed in conjunction with the industry and recognised by the home office.

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
As for your current laws, I think it's a good thing that you have to show good reason to own a gun and shoot it a minimum amount of times, and it's a good thing that you have to keep em in locked cases.

It means there are no legally owned hand guns in this country (not even .22 target pistols). And very few legally owned rifles.

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
As Mr Toad sez, if you have to register BBS, why not pball guns?

As far as I am aware that's not a legally enforced thing here. It may be just a local initiative.

When I first looked to buy a semi auto paintball gun my local police force were pretty sure it would be illegal and advised me against it... I'm not sure they all have the understanding that they should...

Dannefaerd, I've heard about what Pete is doing out there and wish him the best of luck. That document of yours makes interesting reading.

manike