Subculture

[Tom Tom]

I thin k we have got to our point where we agree to disagree and let others say what they think on the matter. Cause I can (knida) see your points of view and understand the idea that living in the gun culture to take it away is a (and correct me if I am wrong) frightening idea. (and keep correcting me from here on in). The idea of no guns is a bad one because living in a society that has them seems like you are no longer able to protect yourself (why else have them if you don't want to shoot people (other than hunters)) But if you never had the guns in the first place you are on a level playing field again and all in the same boat as to this no gun theory.
This is why for us English people (in general) we don't see the point in firearms and think its crazy to ever want to own them.
For the USA its a constitutional right to own them to protect yourself and your properety against trespassers etcetc.

This illistrates a point So OK the gun held was illegal but this is how here nad the US differ.

To quote you again "Tom, you along with gun control advocated envision a world where noone is able the shoot anyone else. I, along with gun rights supporters, see a world where noone wants to shoot someone else."

I know this is over simplified but to just throw a question back, whos idea is more likely to work? For the general public (you or I) then your vision would work. We could own a gun all our lives and never kill anyone and we die happy. If this was the case I would have no problem. The only problem being not everyone is all there. Some people who have a screw lose (to put it nicely) and because of this its no longer a question of not wanting to kill any one but they may just do it any one no matter how much education and learning goes on. Again if they are going to do this kind of thing any way then a no gun policy is better than a gun controled policy (bear in mind it may only be the shootings that flag a person up for being insane).

Well I shall stop there but any other comments are taken on board and hopefully this is helping your paper.

 

[stongle]

Meyer, I sincerely hope you know I was being facetious with my descriptions! Re the gun control issue, this has become a curious thought process for me, and I must admit both sides of the argument are very compelling. Since I almost brought the thread into farce, I’ll try to add a sensible view on Gun control (although maybe a little UK biased).

We live in a world that is increasingly influenced by factors and events on a global scale, what may appear to only be relevant in one country could tomorrow profoundly affect a social group elsewhere. Guns are pretty much a fact of everyday life anywhere in the world regardless of a total ban or not. In the UK the incidence of Gun related crime may be low in certain affluent areas of society, but it is by no means absent especially in urban or deprived areas. One manner in which UK has rather successfully emulated the US is the proliferation of Guns in street gangs. Given that for sometime Rap music had a close association with street and drug related crime, it was inevitable that this would filter through to the UK (our music and youth scene is very similar). The association is now that these weapons are cool and even desirable (I don’t blame the music). It is a well-known fact that the handguns are fairly easy to come by illegally here and even a status hierarchy exists on which weapon is currently vogue (evidently Glocks and Sig Sauers are now the in thing). Mack 10’s and other fully automatic firearms are regularly seized by the police, and often used in street shootings. Banning firearms has little affect on the underground market for guns and has in fact likely made the problem of guns being used by the wrong people more prevalent.

What has proved to be successful in one area of society (i.e. preventing domestic shootings and accidents), has possibly made the street scene worse. The banning of hand-guns in the UK was I feel a little bit of a knee jerk reaction, politically motivated by an isolated event and closing the barn door after the horse had bolted. If on the surface you attempt to paint a picture of peace and happiness, you become unable to deal with the real issues beneath. By pushing guns underground you them put them in the hands of the 16 year old “So Solid Crew” wannabe, who’d have no problem showing it off in public.

By far the best approach to solving gun-related crime is solving the socio-economic problems of this group in society and by education. Little is done in this area because “Hey, in the UK handguns are illegal” (this was the point I was trying to make).

By the way, I have been a fan of rap music for a long time and can see the transition it has gone through (it is now more mainstream and guns no longer feature in lyric’s). In fact I was likely at Public Enemy concerts long before many of you could sing the wheels on the bus go round and round. Plus the Wu-Tang Clan has to be my favorite group of all time!

To sum up, I do feel totally banning hand-guns will not necessarily erase gun crime. Yes it had a positive benefit in certain areas of socirty, but I’m not sure the affect will be the same in the US (i.e. you could alienate middle class America a la “you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers”). Perhaps we ought to spend more time on education and not brush the problem away.

By the way as a UK paintball player, as Tom Tom has already stated the link between Guns and paintball is pretty remote. I suppose I got into Paintball not from the violence / war aspect but as an adrenaline sport (although I did always enjoy “multiple orgy blaster” bullet fests on Halo – send for the men in white coats)

Who knows, I could be wrong…..

 

[Tom Tom]

Strong, I agree with what you say and don't think the ban of guns would solve the problem but as we see in the UK it is not so well known. Yes we may have gun problems from urban areas (I am a white middle class lad (check out the photo)) but alot of the time with the guns being in those areas they are not for the shottings of joe public (although they do get caught in the cross fire) but are gang related wars. I am not invloved in drugs or gangs and wouldn't expect to see some one at my door asking where I stashed their stolen goods. (check out how white I really am) You could argue its the lower end killing off the lower end (cause guns are not so prevelant in UK culture)

In the US i agree education is needed to gun control and firearm saftey. You see much more in the head lines "Kid shots class mates" etc etc (see Pearl Jam Jeremy)

I think a ban on firearms would bring down these cases of gun killing. I don't think it will stop it.

I hope I am still making some sense.

 

[Alien]

Tom tom
Thanks for the mention mate Fame at last.

Nice thread going you all got here. I'll post my reply to the questions in a while, but i would just like to point out that hand guns were banned in this country about 5 years ago (i know, i was one of the 57000 people who had there sport taken away from them).

At the time it was claimed that private legal hand guns were a danger, even though the amount of crime linked to legally held firearms was less than 0.5% of the total figure. since they banned legally held firearms, the amount of firearm crime has rocketed. So why did they ban the sport?

So beware how this sport of ours is portrayed or it may be next on the chopping block to appease the public.

Alien

 

[TJ Lambini]

Meyer>>>>>So, in my opinion, while Tom Tom is correct in that firearms (not guns) make it easier to kill, the best way to prevent the killings is not by taking away the tool, but to deal with the violence.

Fair point, but why not do both? And taking the tool away is a lot shorter process than re-educating society.

These arguments are always interesting, particularly tha manipulation of tha facts. The NRA are proud of the claim that only 1% of legally owned firearms in the US have been used in any crime. The antis would respond that that 1% = two million guns.

And this 'right to bear arms' business? C'mon...it's as bizarre as Brits claiming they have a 'right' to hunt foxes on horseback with dogs, then watch em be ripped apart in tha name of 'sport'.

 

[stongle]

TJ,

We could always hunt small children and let them get ripped apart!!!!

YUM YUM



ONLY JOKING. Fox Huntuing is a nasty sport we should shoot them if foxes are a menace.

Oh Bugger we've made it virtually impossible to own guns (even for pest control).

Hmmmm, hang on a minute, the landed gentry hunt, they sit in parliament and make laws i.e. ban guns, then the only option possible is Fox Hunting!!!!!!!

Conspiracy theories galore!!!!!!!

 

[TJ Lambini]

For what it's worth

Although tha handgun ban in tha UK was a harsh, knee-jerk thang, as someone else said, y'all's gun laws have a surprising amount of sense to them. People are still allowed to own rifles and shotguns, but they have to prove good reason to have them - i.e. hunting, pest control, competitive shooting - and there are checks and safeguards that we simply don't have in tha States.

 

[Meyer]

TJ, you make a good point about the necessity of owning firearms. I personally have no need for a weapon, so I dont personally own one. And for the record I completely agree that hunting is unnecessary. I dont see it as a challenge. The only "sport" aspect to it is actually finding the animal, after that ist simply target shooting. Living in Maine, I talk to a lot of moose hunters, they all say that once you find one, its like hunting a cow. However, one of the basic tenants of american society is the right to do as we please, when we please, without undue government interference, indeed global society in general is trending this way, partly due to US intervention which is a seperate issue. I feel confident saying "my gun has never killed anyone." And while I don't own one, that statement is true for nearly all gun owners in the states. The ability to own a firearm is in the US as ingrained on our culture as the right to have a certain degree of privacy in our homes and the right to the due process of law (being "double jeopardy", trial by jury, fair and speedy trial, grand jury indictment, etc.), or the right to expression. To pass a law that removes any persons right to own a firearm serves to reduce personal freedom, and also may serve as a chink in the armor in the Bill of rights, which as of right now are unchangeble. To illustrate this, if laws were passed negating the second ammendment, then there would be many people who would seek to change other ammendments to solve other problems in society. Some would push to ban pornography, which is now protected under the first ammendment, some would push to suspend fourth ammendment protection for criminals. If anyone doesn't follow me, a copy of the US Bill of Rights is at http://lcweb2.loc.gov/const/bor.html This could lead to a dominoe effect that limits americans freedom.


At this point I feel that I am basically talking in circles, and since I have nothing relevant to add, I'm going to cut myself off. Clint, I really hope this helps with you paper, it sounded like it was more about paintball than gun control, but that part of the paper should make for good reading. Stongle, thats just frightening. Tom, good debating with you, usually when I talk with someone about this I get labeled a right wing, trigger happy american pig.

 

[TheRo0sTer]

Originally posted by Liberty2000

1. What does the sport of paintball mean to you?
2. Who is the best team in the sport today? (your opinion)
3. What kind of people play seriously? (EX: ex-military)
4. How does someone get into the inner circle of the sport?
5. What are your thoughts on gun control?

1. It meant hanging out with a great group of people. Meeting people from all over. Stress relief. Flat out adrenaline RUSH!

2. It's up in the Air these days. My guess would be BLs Ironmen or Dynasty.

3. Your more serious players would have to be the ones who love winning. Ex-Military have nothing to do with where our great sport is head these days.

4. Play hard get recognized. Go to more tourneys and make friends, do well and get recognized. All else fails just walk up and introduce yourself to some of the Pros and flat out shoot the $hit!

5. Gun control is good and bad. Good for safety, Bad because the law abiding citizen is the one who gets shot by the criminal who doesn't care about gun control.