Subculture

[Liberty2000]

My name is Clint MIller I am a student at a private college in Florida and I am currently writing an essay about paintball enthusiasts. I have only played twice but find the sport extremely fasinating. I would like to ask a few brief questions to anyone willing to reply. I chose this forum because I figured anyone in here would probably be pretty serious about paintballing.
1. What does the sport of paintball mean to you?
2. Who is the best team in the sport today? (your opinion)
3. What kind of people play seriously? (EX: ex-military)
4. How does someone get into the inner circle of the sport?
5. What are your thoughts on gun control?
(Alittle off subject but important for the essay)
Thank you for your time.
for the sake of authentisity can you please include your name if you respond. Only my professor will be reading this essay.

 

[Meyer]

Hey Clint, I'm a college student too, good to see people spreading pr about paintball in colleges, I've found people here opposed to the sport (mostly the Liberal Arts people).
1. It means a real good time, I play because I love the game and I can compete reasonably well at it.
2. I'd say Ironmen, simply because they are the standing world cup champions.
3. Everyone plays, ex-military plays, cops play, mothers play, college guys play, there is no single demographic that is paintball, the sport encompasses many different people from different backgrounds, thats part of the fun of the sport.
4. Just play, you can't expect to buy a top end gun, walk on to a field, and get picked up by a team. You have to start at the bottom, get mutilated a few times, and get better. If you keep getting better then some teams going to notice you and pick you up.
5. Gun Control means using both hands. Just kidding. Seriously, I support the waiting period, it just makes sense, but the right to own firearms is protected in the bill of rights (over in the states anyway). The right of the people own firearms (being necessary to the seurity of a free state mind you) is in there right between the freedom to express oneself in their own way, and the freedom from a government occupation of the home. For those Americans who don't understand what I'm talking about, find a copy of the constitution, with the bill of rights, and read it; being protected by it obligates you to at least know what it says. Besides, people turn to gun control as a way to stem violence, but the truth is folks, violent people can be just as violent with a knife or a pipe as a gun. A gun is simply an inanimate tool that if used in a certain way, is capable of taking a life. The Eric Harris' and the Dylan Klebolds of the world dont turn non-violent without a gun, they simply find a different way to manifest their rage and/or sickness.
Thats my rant, I feel very strongly about the gun control, if anyone disagrees, drop a line and we can discuss, I'm always up for a debate.
Clint, fell free to use this in your essay, I'm Chris Meyer, I'm from Maine but am going to school in New York, I've played for about three years now, but only about 2 as a serious player.

 

[Tom Tom]

Originally posted by Liberty2000
My name is Clint MIller I am a student at a private college in Florida and I am currently writing an essay about paintball enthusiasts. I have only played twice but find the sport extremely fasinating. I would like to ask a few brief questions to anyone willing to reply. I chose this forum because I figured anyone in here would probably be pretty serious about paintballing.
1. What does the sport of paintball mean to you?
2. Who is the best team in the sport today? (your opinion)
3. What kind of people play seriously? (EX: ex-military)
4. How does someone get into the inner circle of the sport?
5. What are your thoughts on gun control?
(Alittle off subject but important for the essay)
Thank you for your time.
for the sake of authentisity can you please include your name if you respond. Only my professor will be reading this essay.

Tom Langston. 24. Media Technician / Freelance Radio Presenter.

1) Some of the best times of my life and becoming part of a group of friends that just wanna have a good time. It is a great atmosphere at a tournament and you can talk to people you have never talked to before and you all have the one thing in common.
2) Depends on what aspect you are looking for. Pro teams are always named because of their definate skills. So Dynasty and Rusiion legion, Iron Men and Avalanche all appear for teams I love to watch and think have made paintball a more serious and competative sport.
On a personal level there are teams who may not be top names as yet but are still vital in what I would call my personal paintball experience. Apocalypse and the Psyco Pimps.
and I think you might want to add in there People who have affected the sport. Again the names Robbo, Chris LaSoya, Richmond Itallia and people who have been great to me on my way through. Sparklie Chick (Patrina), Tiny, but I shall stop there on that one.
3) Anyone involved in tournaments plays "seriously" they may still be having fun but when you hit the field you dont stop trying your best.
People who turn up to their rec sites and play every week take it seriously, but as of one group. I have met people from every walk of life who play and everyone of them take this sport seriously.
4)Define inner circle. You go to enough Tournaments and eventually everyone will know your name, It depends at what level you personnally want to get involved. Everyone I have met so far has been quite willing to help you and show you around any aspect of the game you wanna know. At the moment it is not as narrow minded as other places and you can develop and get to know loads of people with reliative ease.
5) Well I hail from the UK so "gun control" is not something I really know about. Why? Well guns over here are illegal. Is this a good thing. Yes. I dont play paintball because i want to kill someone. I play because it is safe and fun.
As of a comment made by Meyer, yes violent people will prob have that disposition whether or not they have guns BUT if they have a knife they are more easily over powered and they have a lot more work to do before you can kill the same ammount of people in the same time.
If you look at what is happening in the US at the moment with the sniper. It is a terrible act of violence but no one has seen him becaause with a high powered rifle he can be a fair distance away and hidden. There is no up close and personal and as such the police have a harder job in tracking him down.
Because of the ease of buying a gun in the US anybody can get there hands on one. And the fact that the US have more deaths a day than the UK does in a year is a staggering figure. but also that The US has more deaths a day by gun shot than the UK does by Road traffic accidents in a year is also a scary thought, (at least I think thats right)
Its kinda like the old cliche about Sex. the only "safe sex" is no sex.
The only safe Gun control is to have no guns. But with it being a part of the constitution it will never change.

Good Luck with you project

 

[Liz]

Hi Clint
Just to make sure you get a good spread of people. I'm Liz Fuhr, 41 years old from London UK, IT Project Manager & Business Analyst.

1) I play because I love the sport, the adrenaline rush, the people, the fact that just about anyone can compete or take part, the team work.
2) Best team would be too hard to call right now. Give us a few more days & the World Cup in Florida will be over which SHOULD give us the top few names. Teams like Dynasty, Avalanche, Russian Legion & Ironmen come to mind, but there are an awful lot of other teams pushing for the top right now e.g. Strange so it can easily all change within a few months.
3) People that play seriously. Well now you're asking. In the team I play for we have me (details above), 2 site owners one of which is an ex-university lecturer, a nurse, a student, a doctor's receptionist cross gun tech/marshall...... All walks of life take part in a way that can be called serious. Depends really on what you mean by that word, as I know rec ballers (non-tournament players) who have better and more expensive equipment than good level tourney players, and some people who can't afford to play more than once a month may be more serious about it than those who can play every week.
4) Like many sports, you just have to meet the right people. I happen to know quite a few "names" in the UK but that's just because I've been involved in one way or another for about 15 years & way back then there weren't that many people to get to know! It can also be a matter of luck, like where you happen to live & your nearest store/site, who your friends know, what table you stage on at a tournament etc.
5) As with Tom Tom, I live in the UK so gun law is much more restrictive here especially since a few incidents of people going wild & shooting innocent people, so I don't feel qualified to answer this one.

Good luck with your essay, & hopefully you'll find out enough about the sport so you play more & become an addict, like most of us here!

 

[Tortoise-Licker]

Hi Clint welcome to the forums
My names Colin Havard, and I'm a 29 year old Professional Slacker [Oh okay I push buttons at an electronic company] from great Yarmouth UK.
1.I love the sense of being part of a team all working as a machine in order to achieve a common goal. Oh and then theres the adrenaline rush that other sports [yes us ballers regard it as a sport now] no longer give me.
2. The Russian Legion. These guys train hard and play well together. In what other team can you see such commitment from the players and the management. Thier time will come and it will be soon, and the rest of us will be in awe of thier dominance of the sport.
3. I depends on what you call playing seriously. I've seen rec-ballers so Immersed in the game that you would believe that the think they are in the nam chasing charlie. This sport embraces players from all walks of life. from house-wives/husbands to managers of multi-national corperations. Although there does seem to be a huge number of players who are in I.T. related occupations.
4. Its all about getting yourself known to a local team or the p8ntballing community as a whole. Even if it means being known for the wrong reasons [Like me ]. But there really is no inner circle of p8ntballing [unless you consider the all illusive pro-player]. Anybody can go out and form a team with likeminded aquaintences and then enter themselves in major tournements.
5. Living in blighty means that gun control doesn't really effect me. Although seeing that the owning of an un-registered Fire-arm is illegal, It still seems rather easy to get hold of one. And after watching the news over the last few weeks and seeing the events unfolding in Washington, It would seem that gun control is a good thing.

Hope this helps and good luck with your essay. If you need any more questions answered just give us a shout and I'm sure somebody can help you out. After all we are not all wannabe Rambo's and any flaming you might see on these forums is just friendly banter.

 

[Chris - Nexus Eclipse]

1. What does the sport of paintball mean to you?

In a word...everything. I eat, sleep and live paintball. my room is covered in PGI pages, i play or judge all the time and when im not, im on here. And its not just playing, if people diss paintball then i get pissed off and will argue with them, same if they say its just a bunch of camo wearing rambo guys in the woods......that really gets to me

2. Who is the best team in the sport today?

Until the Russain Legion can start winning and not dieing in the last moments im gonna have to say Dynasty....they are just soo fast.

3. What kind of people play seriously?

i dont know a single ex, or current millitart player....hmmm. and people who play, every body, age, sex, race......everybody.

4. How does someone get into the inner circle of the sport?

be nice to people, talk to people, dont be shy, put you neck on the line a bit and you may land youself a PGI interview and stuff....like me

5. What are your thoughts on gun control?

well im from england so we dont have the same kinda problems with people having such easy acess to guns. but let me quote Eddy Izzard

The people at the NRA say that "guns dont kill people, people do"........but personaly, i think the gun helps.

i think that gun laws should be a lot tighter than they are and that when they are reviewed the people doing it should know that paintball exists and that we are a respossaible lot and that legislation affects us too.

 

[stongle]

Whump here it is...

Come on Tortoise-Licker everybody knows rec-ballers are lost on the Ho-Chi-Ming Trail trying to frag Charlie, or running their own Operation Phoenix's. Once I caught a few trying to call in an air-strike ("Napaint - nothing else in the world smells like it, smells like victory").

Ok I jest,

Clint, some sensible replies already, from some pretty good ambassadors for the sport, but let’s get down and dirty. It maybe prudent and indeed interesting to point out the "Paintball Politics" (groans all round), and the divide between some Tournament and Rec-ballers. The fact is Clint, Paintball can be split into three groups (two opposing):

Rec-Ballers only
Tournament Players only
The Laissez-faire (those who don’t mind a bit of both)

If you research some of the other forums (especially in Speak your Brains), you will find that huge divisions exist between the Tournament only guys and the Rec-ballers. To put a none too facetious view on it Tournament Guys think all Rec-ballers are Gilly (I can’t spell) suit wearing, Deliverance banjo playing, Christian militia, Tippmann Toting failed Military Psycho’s who’d be better off playing Airsoft (for Mummy’s boys who don’t like pain). Thus this follows on to suggest that this is not an image Paintball as a sport can do with. Tournament players want to be perceived as fully-fledged Sportsmen and women. You will likely find that any association to Paintball and Gun control is not well received by Tournament players, as Paintball requires “Markers” not guns! This follows on for the UK where guns are portrayed in an extremely negative light (helped nicely along by the Washington sniper and other massacres). Ha Ha guess which side I’m on……

Conversely talk to some Rec-ballers who think Tournament Players are massively vain, busy looking good for the honeys, yeah dude surfer types. Rec-ballers who prefer and like the “war-game”, role-playing experience enjoy different aspects of paintball (Escapism, team-work etc). A popular argument also exists (proposed by many Rec-ballers), is that today’s Tournament players are tomorrows Rec-ballers when their week in / week out commitment fails.

The Laissez-faire see the benefits of both sides of the sport and rather sensibly point out that the two can co-exist and that we all started out in the woods. An additional sensible argument is that the rec-ball and occasional walk-on players contribute economically to Paintball (no Economies of Scale lessons today I’m afraid), by keeping the weekly numbers up. Further more the Rec-ball scene is where all of us generally start out, before being converted.

They maybe some economic and socio-demographic difference between the groups (Paintball can be massively expensive $2000 a marker yadda, yadda, yadda). I prefer the Tournament game and rarely wonder into the woods. For your research I’m 27 and work as a Business Analyst in an Investment bank. How representative this is of each group would require further research.

So you see we are not a united homogenous group, and you will need to (possibly) sub-divide your essay to cover who plays and why.

Sorry if I’ve not presented a united front, but if I was Lecturer and wanted a deep and insightful essay on the Sport lets Flush it all out in the open. Oh and I’m gonna get flamed for my descriptions, but I did admit they were a little over exaggerated but typical of the community jest!

Stongl

(gonna wait about 30 seconds for Tygers Flaming

 

[Meyer]

Stongle, your description of the three groups is quite apt, I've always viewed it as either rec ball, or tourney ball (and have for some time harbored a dark passion for the vietnam scenarios), but I think you are absolutely correct in that there many players (indeed I would say most players) who play both.
Tom Tom, I respect your opinion, indeed it makes a great deal of sense, but I think that the problem is Violence itself. Granted, a firearm makes it very easy to kill and not be caught, and a knife is a far less efficient way of killing, but the solution to the problem of shootings is to control the violence, not the tools. Now, I understand that it is impossible to stop violence, it is part of human nature to better ourselves and the things we care for, and as a result, people are forced into conflict, and inevitably, violence erupts, but the problem is not the gun. To tie this all in with paintball (very loosely mind you), as soon as people see that it is violent behavior that causes shooting deaths, and that guns are simply tools, they will no longer see paintball as a paramilitary activity. What we paintballers need to do as a community is to reduce the public sentiment that guns are a inherently bad. For those who say paintball markers are not guns, look in a dictionary, they are projectile launchers, they are by defination guns. The problem is, in common language, "gun" has become synonimous (sp?) with "firearm" (according to Websters 1. a weapon (as a pistol) from which a shot is discharged by gunpowder). Paintball markers propel projectiles, they are guns, they do not however use shot (bullets, pellets, etc.) and powder, they use paint filled balls and compressed air. They are not intended for killing, as firearms are, save for target rifles but those are simply firearms used on a range.
So, in my opinion, while Tom Tom is correct in that firearms (not guns) make it easier to kill, the best way to prevent the killings is not by taking away the tool, but to deal with the violence. By educating people that the proliferation of firearms is not the problem, we can protect the sport of paintball from being banned because people see the markers as guns, confuse them with firearms, and then pass laws against them.

 

[Tom Tom]

In the spirit of debate I shall reply (I hope this helps your paper):

Meyer I agree with 99% of what you are saying and think I am grasping more of the stick you are waving (If you'll pardon the expression)

The point where we lose the view is on Violence, and yes while I don't agree with it and do agree with you on how paintball markers should be represented to the general public, not as guns or Firearms but as markers.

You say "the solution to the problem of shootings is to control the violence, not the tools".

and you do say you agree with my point of violence as a constant and that guns will do the job quicker than a knife.

To try to illistrate a point here, I would argue it is the tools. Because we will always see violence, whatever the motivation behind it (drunks, politics, religion).
In this day and age I would argue that 90% of people are educated (from what ever background) in violence and the causes and the wasys to avoid it etc etc etc.

To refer back to your quote, In america you have more shootings than most. Why? because you have Firearms/guns.
Are all shootings violent? No. Why? Kids get hold of a parents guns and shot themselves. So yes your point of education is valid but if the kid is 3/4 then some education is just not going to prepare them for curiosity. If there was no guns then that kid might have had more of a chance. Maybe we could argue if they were going to something bad to themselves it would have happened any way. Well yes, I suppose BUT you are decreasing the chances of anything bad happening. We have stair guards to stop them from climbing and falling down stairs.

I suppose its because I dont live within a gun culture and gun avaliable society that I have my views. As you are entitled to yours. Maybe they would be different if i was born in the US i don't know. Looking from the outside in I just see that it seems to be better with out firearms.

To bring it in to paintball. In the US it would be virtually impossible to ban Paintball without banning all guns and firearms.

In the UK well we dont seem to have the gun problem that would draw attention the sport as a bad thing. Yes if some kid gets hold of one and starts to shot anything with it the media will ahve a field day with it. I don't know where it would lead but I would like to think that the UKPSF have made some ties to some politicians that would show this as a one of case and the lack of resposibility this "kid" had.

So to close. I think the best way to stop killings (related to firearms) would be to take them away as the education that Meyer talks of to deal with violence would in reality never work and with that in mind the less damage people can do the less violent deaths there would be.

However education of people to the differences of paintball markers and the difference of Firearms etc would be a great thing so people can differenciate between the fun of team sports and stress relief activities (I know all the comments already) and violent actions and agreesive behavior in the other end of the spectrum.

Just my view of course.

 

[Meyer]

Tom, good to see this thread is being civil, after I entered the post, I was afraid I might have offended you. You are absolutely correct that those living in gun societies and those not living in them have different views on gun control. I simply have to disagree with you that the solution is too remove the tools. Removing guns from the hands of people does not solve the root problem, that being violence, and while you are completely correct that it is impossible to completely stop violence, it is possible to dampen it to some extent. Now, recognize that this comes from an American, Republican, supporter of the NRA (though not officially a member), and grew up in a family that supported the NRA, the idea of not having firearms is a foreign to me as the police being able to search my home on a whim.
As for your child example, thats another issue. That is the issue of firearm safety, which is another touchy issue. In my opinion, anyone who wishes to buy a firearm should have to pass a firearm safety course, and also be given or made to purchase gun locks, barrel plugs (yes those do exist for firearms too) and lockboxes for the ammunition. We have stair guards to make the stairs safer, we don't remove the stairs. These accidental shootings are simply a result of a society that allows any one who wants a firearm to own one, while I think this is a good thing, the society should also make these firearms as safe as possible.
The real difference in our two points of view is the way we approach the problem. Tom, you along with gun control advocated envision a world where noone is able the shoot anyone else. I, along with gun rights supporters, see a world where noone wants to shoot someone else. Granted this is dangerously oversimplified, and if I'm wrong here please publicly berate me, but this seems to be the root of the issue.
Clint, was this paper more about paintball or about how gun control affects paintball, because we have pretty much neglected paintball here (which I'm sure is a bad thing in a paintball forum). Anyway, I really hope this helps.