Strange, Euro X-Ball and Team USA

[Beaker]

reply to Diffistuta(hope I spelled it right)

Originally posted by repairman
I would agree with those who say it is a flash in the overall history of the game. It has a lot of money behind it.........so it will go futher then Rollerball. However the format which is believed to be better for TV or live whatever is wrong.
Lets face it Paintball for all purposes is a Extreme Sport at best with a slight twist because unlike the other Extreme sports it is a tema game. There is no current Xtreme sport that is a live TV event. Not the X-games, Gravity games, or any other series is on live TV. So with that you don't need a format such a X-ball.
What you do need is more money from outside sponsors to pay for the right equipment to film the sport correctly. The most any production crew uses is two to three cameras. How about having
12 or more covering more angles and giving the post production crew more footage to use when editing the event. The Oln
production for those who saw it was a step in the right direction, however there are better groups out there but it will just take time. Paintball for the TV viewers will come down to Post production. Things like Chalk talk and the announcers of the sport will eventually make the difference to the viewing audience.
Again what we are looking for is the New consumer, the one that nows nothing about the sport. We don't need to sell the sport to those who already play.

Rodders

Good points.

Talking of OLN - is it true that PSP had to pay for the airtime for WC and wasn't TV coming to them but them stumping up the cash and got the airtime?
Also - are they therefore paying for this years PSP coverage in the same vein?

 

[Wadidiz]

Nick,

I hear you but you still haven't answered the question. If you were the king of the hill and could start the season from scratch, what would you have for a program?

And I still hold to my statement: Euroteams can still practice seriously and having a slower pace in 2003 DOES NOT mean that the cause is lost forever. I keep hearing that and it is so short-sighted. I have the utmost regard and respect for Robbo, but I get surprised when I hear a guy about my age looking at things in such a short-sighted way. I expect it from all the rest of you, but get over it. Let's work NOW towards shaping Season 2004 into the series you guys want. And let's make the best of what we have now.

Again, if you guys are serious about X-ball then start getting some practices together. I'll help co-ordinate it if you like.

Again, spell out a realistic program that you would like to see now and that maybe we can work towards for 2004.

Steve

 

[TJ 2]

>>>Please explain to me how that would have helped the rest of the European paintball, considering there is no media coverage to be based here.

I imagine it was based on a trickle-down plan which was dependent on tha legendary massive media deal that has yet to show up.

Mr Squires is bang on tha money with his assesment of extreme sports event and how they are portrayed - they are like sports versions of Lollapalooza an' Glastonbury, and Super-7s obviously sees that as tha way forward. And as for Paintball being hard to follower if you're an outsider - try judging freestyle boarding or skating if you're not already in tha loop. People watch it for tha moves - and pball has got its own set of phat moves too.

It appears tha powers that be at NXL are tending to view pball as having the potential to be an established sport like hockey, basketball etc., and are looking to portray is as such: home town franchises, easily followable matches etc.

Question is, which road do we want to follow, cos I think for every person in power in Paintball that covets tha extreme image, there's another who wants to go for the mainstream approach.

That's tha thinking that underpins tha two parties thinking IMHO.

 

[repairman]

Reply to Beaker

The Oln production was paid for by the sponsors of the Show
which I believe were JT, National, WDP; I'm sorry if I don't
know the rest. I have heard through my sources that
OLN is not interested in filming X-ball and the PSP has to
pay to get the shows on the air. This will be through Sponsors
or paid advertisers.

Rodders

 

[manike]

This is gonna be long...

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I believe we should have set up the EXL, to mirror the NXL !

Agreed.

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
You may just as well ask what the finals of a Millennium event does for European paintball - most of the team will never get anywhere near it - much less the punters that are far removed from tournament ball.

Oh common you are clutching at straws to justify why you want to play in X-ball

The finals of a Millennium event are part of a whole Millennium event, at which hundreds of players turn up to participate and who have thousands of family and friends at home to disseminate their information to. Players all around Europe can easily play the same format and aspire to compete at the top level.

An X-ball match has maybe 30 players in total... and as for crowds? It's yet to be seen how many will come from outside the sport. Especially for Europe. And there will be what maybe 20-30 X-ball players in each country? DO you really think the ground roots of plaintball will practice and want to play in a format they realistically have no chance of getting into at the moment?

Toulouse had huge crowds from outside the sport as did Huntington Beach from what we hear.

So far the Super Seven (S7) and Millennium Series (MS) has had more TV coverage. We shall see how much X-ball gets. Will it out do S7 and MS this year? We don't know for sure yet.

The only thing that lifts the X-ball format is this alleged media deal and outside sponsorship.

I think the most important thing for Euro paintball is to develop the ground base and roots. We need more players then we can cherry pick etc. and get more media coverage because there will be a bigger demand for it. We need something that players and supporters from all over can aspire to AND be part of.

I dont think having just two teams in the NXL will do that. I think maybe having an EXL will...

And as for TJ's sarcastic comment on all the trickle down on the massive media deal. He has a point. How is that money going to trickle into Europe? The NXL won't be shown in Europe. It will be shown in the USA. No Euro sponsors will get rewards for their outlay. The Euro people that will get the rewards are those that get to piggy back into the USA's NXL... No people that have never seen paintball before in Europe will see it on TV and want to go play. They won't be out buying more stuff from the sponsors.

Very few Americans will want to support a Euro team against their countrymen in any NXL series.

So again how does this benefit Europe by having a few teams compete in the NXL?

I think sometimes that's clouded the bigger picture for those that could be involved as compared to those in Europe who have no chance.

We need a format that gets marketing that allows us to compete in each country, get media coverage, then compete in Europe and get media coverage and then Compete with the World, get meida coverage, let the money roll in, become famous etc...

JUST LIKE HOW ALL THE OTHER MAJOR SPORTS WORK.

How often elsewhere do you see teams from outside a country directly competing in that countries series and for that countries sponsors?

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I saw X as a pure marketing vehicle, that had it's sole justification in marketing paintball to the masses, and as such get more punters to the fields, more teams on the books, and so on.

Agreed. The important part is the marketing. I'd like to see a Euro series with maybe Niall marketing it to Bravo and the cable channels. It's a start. He achieved a great start there which we need to follow up on, maybe after a good result there we can sell a UK series to them... with the 'Brighton Tigers' 'Bristol Shockwave and 'London Nexus'?

If you try and market the NXL with one or two Euro teams to the channels over here I expect you would get a lower response than if you tried to market the Nations cup or just an EXL to them.

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
BUT - it's what's currently the premier concept, and to leave European team behind once again, is a shame.

Hmm. Where does it say it's the premier concept? Seems like Millennium Series has been going from strenght to strength over the last few years and S7 has started off strongly. Please explain to me what makes X-ball 'premier' right now?

Just look at how many 'top teams' played at S7 and want to come play in Europe...

I don't think we should so readily run away from the fantastic European series we have already developed, and I'm certainly not convinced by the abuse that some of the people who have done so much for us have gotten.

It's all about the marketing to get more people and money into the sport.

I'm playing a little devils advocate here sometimes but these questions need to be answered. Come up with a plan that will work and bring in rewards for European sponsors and I'll be there backing it and doing all I can to support it's development. If your in it just for yourself and your own rewards I'm not sure I can see how outside sponsors will support it?

I haven't seen a solution yet.

If we have a European and then Champion of the World in 7man competition then we have succeeded. Especially since it sounds like other 7 man teams will be competing with us from the USA and the World

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Let's work NOW towards shaping Season 2004 into the series you guys want. And let's make the best of what we have now.

Steve

Not meaning to be defeatist here, Steve, particularly as you have stepped up and taken a role trying to contribute, but---
You knew that was coming, didn't you?
Seems to me EXL or whatever are in position of aiming at 2004 cus nobody(s) with the means was willing to take the risk in 2003.
And a real EXL season in 2004 is really dependent on what the NXL makes of this year, isn't it? After all, will the same folks who won't put money behind the EXL this year do so next year unless they see a better reason than they see now? I wouldn't think so.
Clearly, there are teams that want to give it a go but what real competitive value is there to tacking one X-Ball match per team onto each Mil Series event? It keeps the prospect alive but doesn't do much for the teams.
The only thing that made any sense to me short of an EXL attached to Mil events is a shoestring completely separate EXL instead of Mil events for any teams that would choose to compete (which I floated before). Why? Cus Mil Board has issues with providing space for an X-Ball field and concerns over the viablility of some of the Mil events with a number of Pro teams not incorporated into the 7-man draw. So, if they aren't part of the solution they're part of the problem. Of course, even that is a moot issue depending on who, if anyone, in Europe has control over "rights" to put on an official X-Ball sanctioned event.
I imagine the reason to tie EXL to Mil is a matter of profile and outside connections but if that's not gonna happen what option exists other than to wait or strike out separately? If EXL were to play the mags would cover the events and results. If 10 top Euro Pro teams were determined to set up an EXL series I wonder if the Mil Series wouldn't find a way to make it happen?
Sorry, Steve, no good answers, just some thoughts and more questions.

 

[Wadidiz]

Simon

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
What I'm pissed about, is the sole fact that it's nations cup instead of regular teams, which makes things so much harder for the teams playing - compared to our US counterparts.

Let's leave it at that !

Nick

Nick,

I think you're exaggerating this idea of how bad it would be to play with a mixed team of your nation's allstars. Both Joy Division and Les Ton Tons Flingueurs indicated that they actually benefited from the other players. I read that Team USA also performed brilliantly together and seemed to enjoy it. It's a question of communication and chemistry, I know. But I don't recall hearing anyone complaining about having allstar teams or it being harder.

Steve

 

[Gyroscope]

What you Europeans need is about 7 million people running around in your woods wearing camo and calling markers "guns" and pods "clips" and throwing paint and smoke grennades. They will brag to one another about all the "kills" they got and embarass you in front of your fellow tournament playing friends when you bring them to a team practice to try to get them to step it up and see how good they are when a score is kept.

But you guys don't like the whole military image, huh. I have to give you my deepest thanks for transforming the game into speedball. Paintball went through puberty when WDP and Adrenaline brought it into arenas. Europeans made it a sport, instead of just a game. I love the turns paintball has taken... for the elite top ten percent of us who play in tournaments.

You don't like the concept of an elite much, either.

I guess if I lived in Europe I would feel much the same... World Wars fought in your pastures would remove some of the sexy from Camo. Hundreds of years of history under rule by heriditary autocrats would possibly tarnish attitudes toward an "elite", too.

Rec-players here are embarassing. But they grow up to be Bob Long and Chris Lasoya. That's in the long run. In the short run, they pay for the sport of paintball by consuming all that crappy low-quality gear that companies sell to make money to design the cool stuff we use. That justifies more sponsorships, too.

What you need isn't more practices this year... well you need that, but you need something else. You need the economic base to compete with the US before you have the top flight teams to beat the US teams.

Seems like Europe as a whole is able to work together as an economic body, and European paintball seems able to unite as well. All that seems hopeful, as far as the future.

Now, Tontons, Nexus, RL, come prove me wrong.

 

[TJ Lambini]

>>>Both Joy Division and Les Ton Tons Flingueurs indicated that they actually benefited from the other players.


Well I guess we'll see soon enough, but I'd bet that most, if not all, teams go with their own squads.

 

[manike]

Who covers the paint for the Nations Cup? The players and their sponsors or what?