State of UK paintball

[Liam92]

Well the argument about £100+ a case at a rental site is completely redundant because A. no rental player shoots 2000 paintballs in a day and B. that isn't anywhere near 1000% profit because the 'profit' from paint pays for the rental fleet of equipment, the marshals wages, the land and all associated costs (so building the site and rent) and the entire administrative side to deal with bookings, insurance etc etc.
there is no easy way out because it is only with these costs that people can come experience paintball with no prior experience or equipment such as on birthdays,and can then progress further if they want to. so yes walk on days and such will always be around for those that have taken it further but the reality is these players simply would not exist if it wasn't for the rental market, and that market can only be sustained with these kind of prices.

 

[shootinropez]

I'm not saying I disagree, but the first time that most people go paintballing is rental in a woodsball environment. How are we supposed to get people into tournament paintball if they're only exposed to the expensive woodsball side. the first time I went, i loved it, but didn't think i'd go for a long time because i just couldn't afford to go more than once every few months. I had to research and so forth to find out how to get into paintball cheaply. Most people won't take time to do this-especially people who go to these rental sites and pay £50 for a day and don't get much for it. There is no feeder system into tournament paintball. I've lived in the US and the good thing about the fields i went to there were that almost every site had both woodsball and tournament ball. My first time there, i asked what it was and got the opportunity to play on a tournament field, this obviously got me straight into. The problem in the UK is that there is no exposure to speedball. I think more sites need both woodsball and tournament ball at the same site.

 

[onasilverbike]

While those with companies making guns are all driving about in Lamborghinis between their luxury motor yachts, country mansions and penthouse flats I suppose and don't need to concern themselves with wages, taxes, distribution, marketing, sponsorship, or any other associated costs of being a business in a cut-throat, competitive sports environment. Again, the example above gives the biggest mark-up to retailers, and obviously they have no overheads either. While some in the paintball industry may have comfortable lifestyles, they are not Abramovich, and those that do have some of the things above likely as not paid for them from other sources of income or businesses.

Look at the amount of support, for example, Eclipse, put in to the game, they have techs and/or trade stands at everything from the CPPS and big games to the PSP and Millennium Series, they pay event organisers for the pitches to set up their trade stands, rent, lease or buy trucks and trailers to transport the goods there and pay, transport and accommodate staff to man the booths, entertain dealers and distributors, sponsor competing teams, the list goes on, however, their goods are apparently overpriced, something that doesn't seem to stop their thousands of retail customers from buying them.

 

[Liam92]

I'm not saying I disagree, but the first time that most people go paintballing is rental in a woodsball environment. How are we supposed to get people into tournament paintball if they're only exposed to the expensive woodsball side. the first time I went, i loved it, but didn't think i'd go for a long time because i just couldn't afford to go more than once every few months. I had to research and so forth to find out how to get into paintball cheaply. Most people won't take time to do this-especially people who go to these rental sites and pay £50 for a day and don't get much for it. There is no feeder system into tournament paintball. I've lived in the US and the good thing about the fields i went to there were that almost every site had both woodsball and tournament ball. My first time there, i asked what it was and got the opportunity to play on a tournament field, this obviously got me straight into. The problem in the UK is that there is no exposure to speedball. I think more sites need both woodsball and tournament ball at the same site.

this is my view on what is wrong because even if people do go to the effort of researching it, the severe lack of airball locations at a local level for people makes travelling to events at the masters/cpps/bricketwood not very appealing if it isn't out your back door. obviously i'm not suggesting that every site opens an airball field and tries to run a tournament series out of it but by providing local novice tournaments for the beginners, and training facilities for the more dedicated players you would probably find that this worked as a much better feeder system with a gradual move from rental to woodsball to novice airball to domestic tournament series. speaking from Scotland you can count on one hand the sites that are trying to provide for both sides of paintball and i would be prepared to bet that by opening supair sites you will see more teams spring up from these areas which ultimately leads to these teams looking to travel and play bigger events once they have matured.

more teams => more competition => higher quality teams at the top. and lets be honest i bet if you had teams on the same level as RL, dynasty, damage etc playing nearby then you would see a lot more new faces coming in and aspiring to play with the big boys.

 

[LATHAM]

For one, I honestly don't think the UK needs a vast number of Pro teams. Just 1 or two really good teams like Nexus, Disruption or The Firm is great. I mean look at Russia for example. For years there was only really the Russian Legion and they seemed to manage to find plenty of good players to keep them on top. Why have 5, 6 or 7 UK pros trying to compete with each other.

Plus, didn't our very own UK under 21's team just win the Nations cup? Not bad for a country where paintball is on its knees.

I also think as paintballers we expect too much. Like any sport, it's gonna cost money. Now if it’s something like football you don't need much. A ball, some mates, jumpers for goal posts and your local park. Now other sports cost far more. Take golf (not that I know anything about it). You can spend a fortune on clubs but then you've also got to join a club, pay a monthly fee etc etc. Now none of that is cheap and I'm sure some people complain about that, but that’s just how it is and you don't see the golf clubs or manufacturers just handing out sponsorship to everyone.

People like Planet already invest an awful lot in tournaments like the CPPS so they can continue to run. To then ask them to sponsor some low division team or even some higher teams seems a bit silly really. If everyone is sponsored, what are the point of Pro teams and why would people want to up their games? Especially if they don't promote the sport.

When I played and captained K2 we drew quite a few sponsors and that was mainly because of the team image. We where a nice, approachable bunch of guys, who looked and acted professional and pushed our sponsors products like you wouldn't believe. Now at the time there weren't many other amateur teams doing that (maybe the Rushers and a few others) so it kind of made us attend out. (We even had a full on corporate booklet to give sponsors showing them what the benefits of sponsoring us would be. Bet there's not many pro teams doing that even now.)

The thing is that now, nearly all the teams are doing this kind of thing, so what are the new benefits that the company’s are going to be drawn in buy? I for one think that the big companies should withdraw some team’s sponsorship and invest more in the tournaments and the introduction of new players. Maybe even sponsor key players who are good for the sport more than whole teams of guys, where some of them a clearly not good advocates for the sport or brands.

I'm sure that last statement will pee a whole load of people off, but we’ve got to understand that paintball is a hobby/sport, like many others out there and hardly any people who play other sports are sponsored or get things at a reduced cost just because it's expensive to take part.

Oh and there is no way Planet or anyone else is only going to make a new gun and only make a 100 quid on each unit. Your forgetting that microsoft will probably sell a few hundred thousand surface tablets.Planet will sell thousands, but nowhere near the volumes they would need to sell to break even on R&D and design. Plus if you only want to spend a few hundred quid on a gun there are plenty of companies making guns at that price or there is a massive second hand market. If you want the top guns, people like Planet are more than welcome to sell you thier top stuff at over a grand. And I'm guessing by the looks of what was on show yesterday that plenty of people want the newest and latest kit.

 

[Henry.B]

I you play sup'air, get your spare rig and kit, lend it to a friend and bring them a long for a day, that way, they'll get a taste of the tourney game, without having they're bank account rinsed

 

[Al Woods]

Are we sitting comfortably? Good, lemme tell you all a little story about pro balling, getting free ****, what's involved and why soooooo many teams and players shouldn't get it.

As my compadre Latham said earlier we had a nice little team called K2 many moons ago, which was great. We enjoyed going to events, having a good time and winning some ****. But we all wanted a bit more, but not from Planet or other companies, from ourselves so we designed new kits, got em printed and did a whole colour matching gun thing. Ace. Which cost a fortune but we didn't care because WE wanted it. We then became good friends with Ledz and co so decided to get new guns, all the same colour, so they gave us a discount because (a) we bought a bunch of gear (b) had a great image (c) became great advocates for Planet and (d) were very approachable...plus we never actually asked or expected any of it.

Then, me and Latham got all big headed and left our team as we got all competitive (even when he knew I was way better) and wanted to play at a higher level. We had offers and at the time Shock wanted a fresh team for EXL so we jumped at the chance. Everything was paid for. Transport, paint, free gear the lot, the dream right? We played hard and played really well but just couldn't cut it as a team at that level. Training in Bristol every other weekend wasn't possible as some of us couldn't commit, beers and other stuff became pricey and it was hard, so we quit after the season. Why? Because we had careers, wives, kids, houses...etc and could not commit to what it takes to be a true pro baller. Fact.

The following year Inferno paid our year in the PA which upset the team and meant the team played badly all year at a series that clearly was not a Pro Level competition and we felt guilty. Why should be have free ball at that series? What actual value to sponsors was that actually giving? Nothing. Yeah we were good but you need to be in a position to give results, like any other Pro level sport. You need to be able to commit at that high level and give back what you're given.

At CPPS this weekend we had some good chats with people and saw some normally average teams playing really well and having a great time which was the best I remember seeing a UK event in a long time, but you gotta look around and smell the horse ****. Why should anyone pay for you to play?

If you wanna be a pro you gotta work for it. Second hand kit is super cheap!! Join a team, play like a beast, make some noise, get noticed, chat to other teams, try to work your way up the ladder just like any other sport and if you want something for nowt you better be willing to give something back. Share your gear, chat to others, give advice, promote YOUR brand. Live it. Then you'll get noticed, poached, get the opportunity to play big, you'll grow as a player and live the dream. But you've always gotta give back. No such thing as a free lunch. We're still paying Ledz back in love, hugs and ass kissing.

So what am I saying? Look around and realise where we are on the paintball map and see how to help it grow for everyone. Embrace divisions of talent and cash money and work your way up the ladder. If you're good you'll get what you want but you gotta give back. UK paintball gets its ass whupped by us lot, the ones playing when we should be supporting it. Some people make a difference from time to time but are hounded for favours (sorry Rich) then they eventually vanish into a dark corner of poverty and where are the spongers? Help eachother out, get some pride and maybe, just once in a while, give props to the Ledz's, the Rich's, the site owners and the team owners of this world who actually really give a ****. If they didn't then we'd all be playing golf. And nobody wants that right?

 

[Andy]

Bring back K2!! You know you want to.....

 

[Tony Harrison]

Well, a K2/Pimp$ hookup has already happened.

 

[Al Woods]

Just been reading a few bits about gun costs. Now R&D takes time, anything that needs designing takes time, research, thought, discussion, trial and error and testing. To design, develop, make, approve, package, create manuals, advertise then finally sell takes a whole lot of time and a good sized team of people to do. These people are experts in their field, get paid a wage and do a great job. Think about it, Ego will have Ledz, Jules, Flash, Skid, Jack and at least another 4 of 5 people just to plan, design and approve the idea. Then you gotta factor in the manufacturer side of things. All this could take the best part of a year to do, that's probably a solid 6 months of wages for at least 15 people. Then materials, failed prototypes, freight costs...etc. THEN you gotta promote an advertise it, then give away around 50+ to top tiered teams, provide FREE tech support at events for players...it's starts to get a little overwhelming doesn't it?