Reffing: What are you going to do about it?

[Codiak]

cost and location permitting this is something that would interest me.
then obviously I would like to find events I can attend when im not playing to put it to some use.

 

[philfull]

I wasn't at the fed cup to witness the events that unfolded with the reffing of the tournament but would i be right in thinking players over reacted to a couple of decisions and marred the whole weekend?

My team and I ref a local tourney and have done for a while, but although we dont get every decision spot on i have never been threatend with violence by a player. If this was to happen then banning the player is the only concievable punishment, any organiser worth thier salt would stand behind that decision even if it ment losing that teams entry at the next event but reading this and the feedback thread from the fed cup it sounds like a mountain has sprung from a mole hill in regards to the quality of refs in this country. I play tourneys like the rest of you guys and can honestly say that a ref has never directly lost us a game. Yeah i have been on the recieving end of dodgy calls but if a ref is not particularly adept at what he does then both teams on the field have the same problem.


I agree that we need a course for refferees but until all of paintball plays by the same rules this would be negated. To get a unified rule book we would need a gouverning body at an international level and who would do that?. psp or millennium? which ever took charge of the rules would send the other into obscuraty and i believe paintball would be at a detrement because of it. There isn't an easy fix to the standard of uk reffing unless you can get the best of the best to work with every committed "amateur" ref in the country.

Maybe as a starting block the UK refs could set up some kind of advisory system where an event organiser books a couple of these guys to oversee the refs at said event and assess then advise them on what occured during the day. This system of assessment rather than instruction could at least add a bit of consistancy to the games if not just sort the wheat from the chaff to find committed referees that are open to scrutiny and constuctive critisism.

 

[Echowitch]

Bah you beat me to it

Totally agree on the Player ID & Registration system, I even suggested it in the Fed Cup feedback thread. Its the only way to truly enforce players. The UKPSF card system could be expanded to accommodate it, although it would need some checks. Getting players to provide some form of official photo ID to prove who they are, their date of birth, etc, so as to ensure that player info is accurate.

Then check every player at every event. Everyone aged 17+ (the main problem player area) has either a photo ID driving licence (provisional or full) or a passport to use as appropriate ID to prove their identity for a player registration system. For those under 17 Im sure that someone can think of some sort of way of proving identity. National Insurance cards perhaps and a parent signed form. (Just an idea)

Its the only way to regulate players, and properly penalise those who decide to act like animals. We have far too many people who are prima donna's, or have no respect for authority, other players, or the impression they give to new people in the sport, or those outside of it !!

As for ref's, yes they need some form of formal training. Both for their own benefit to make things easier and smoother for them, but also for us players as well. Its essential for the smooth running of the leagues. I've only done a small amount of ref'ing in the past but anyone who is willing to put on a ref's jersey and get shot to pieces like they do has my respect.

 

[Parksy]

I have marshalled all of once in my 8 years or so playing, it was at a 2k5 event at Elsham Bully ran.

In that one day I had someone throw there toys out the pram because he chronoed at 340fps and I told him he couldn't go on the field and penaltied his team for it. Strangely the team took it well, but he took the huff and refused to play for the rest of the day.

I then had a player from a 'Pro' team argue about a hit I had pulled him for. He was hit on the chest off the break, I pulled him, after the game he then was shouting and screming and asking me to point out where he had been hit, which he had obviously removed while in the deadbox.

I then also had another div one player threaten to kill me and kick off with the team they were playing for overshooting him (was something like 5 on 1). The fact the team bonus balled him because the team he played for notoriously played on, but hey ho. This was also witnessed by the Ultimate of the series at the time who did absolutely nowt about it. In closing the refs we have now need more respect or what hope do you have of others actually wanting to do it, if the ones we have now are at there wits end?

After this (and this was only once) I vowed I would never marshall an event again. I also after this had a greater respect for the marshalls who do this every month (the ones that don't even PLAY anymore I might add). They don't do it for the money, because what they get barely (if it even does) cover there expenses.

Over the last 8 years I've realised the higher the level of paintball players seem to be at the worse the cheating/argueing/bonus balling/abuse etc seems to get (this is not a blanket statement though! there are some very good and fair teams out there as well in the upper ranks). If you have young players aspiring to be like our top players what hope do you have if they see them behaving like this?!

It seems all too easy to blame a ref for people loosing games. We have all had bad calls and lost games for it, but by the same token we have had teams we are playing against have bad calls made against them and won games we probably shouldn't have! Swings and roundabouts people! Feck me even premier league refs and linesman get massive calls wrong, and look at whats involved money wise for the people involved there!

I have a few refs as friends on Facebook. Sadly a few of there status are reading that they are disallusioned at best, and given up altogether at worst. Without these people there are no tournaments, end of story!

Sadly though until punishments are dealt out that discourage these types of behaviour nothing will change. Why players feel they can behave like this I have no clue (and bolloc*ks to the 'we are paying customers' line!).

How many times after arguing with refs do games get re played? Never in my experience. So the point of arguing and abusining refs is what exactly?

Most players are friendly and show some manners towards marshalls, and this is always reciprocated in my experience. Its ironic that the teams caught playing on, arguing, abuseing people, are the ones that feel hard done by!! The rest just accept the calls and get on with it.

Hope the likes Jabba, Ant, Jon, Jahlad, Sue etc to name but a few carry on reffing, because without experienced marhshalls like them I don't know where the complaints would end! And what we would do as an alternative? Self marshall like Bullys used to? No thanks, let the refs be refs and the players be players (all be in better behaved ones!).

 

[Markie C]

I have not really read this post but sounds good.

But i think it needs to be done with some one who reff's week in week out.

Kenji who reff's the div 1 field at the MS reff's al over Europe every weekend,

and has reff state side as well and i have been told he is one of the best.

I am sure of you can get enough people that it could fund him coming over.

I think getting some one who does it on the odd month when he/she needs some thing to do or some extra cash will be problematic from the start, and hold no real standing when it comes to roll it out.

 

[Dark Warrior]

I do believe that the 4 people I mentioned are perfectly capable of putting together what we need. I know they are all passionate about UK Ball and adequately represent referees in this country. All they need to do is talk to each other and work it out.

 

[Tony Harrison]

I do believe that the 4 people I mentioned are perfectly capable of putting together what we need. I know they are all passionate about UK Ball and adequately represent referees in this country. All they need to do is talk to each other and work it out.

Will do, brother!

 

[Tony Harrison]

No Offence Jon, but we first need to get a universal set of rules that refs are trained to, a grading system that refs competencies can be assessed against and a disciplinary code of conduct that is enforced at 3 levels UK, Euro & Global. That is more than 1 man can handle, so I am going to be really contentious and say first and foremost that you, Jabba, Jon C and Oli get together and thrash out how you standardise the interpretation of the rules and an appropriate grading system and then put your proposals to the Federation. I don't really care what you 4 think of each other, but what I do know is that together you have enough combined knowledge to see this through to fruition.

To the Federation I say verbal and physical abuse, actual or threatened, on field or online, to any member of an officiating crew must be dealt with as it is in any other sport or pastime.

Full player registration is a must and the UKPSF has the facilities to produce the Photo ID cards now. No one should be playing in any tournament whether or not sanctioned without registration

Good post!

I get on with pretty much everyone, and will speak to them over the next few weeks.

 

[Tony Harrison]

Great post and I think unmasks the real problem in our sport, and that is a minority spoiling it for everybody else.
Luckily for us, a lot of these ingrates are on their way out of our sport, the natural [de]selective process will soon take care of them anyway.

The bottom line is this, our sport [in this country] is nowhere near rich enough to finance referee training, and that is of course based upon the fact some people want to be trained.

It would come as no surprise that it's a diminishing bunch of ballers who wish to put themselves forward for ref training after the likes of this weekend's outbursts.

Our sport has for the moment, defaulted to its natural level and as such, luxuries such as paid refs is a mere pipe-dream ... it just ain't gonna happen in the short to mid term.

The Fed can oversee a ref training program but it might do us well to try and negotiate walking instead of running at this stage in our development ..... er, which may I remind you is, our first event.

I hate the idea we have only a few role models for aspiring players in our sport, the likes of Tommy Pemberton and Jason Wheeler are two great candidates but what will stick in the minds of the vast majority of players and refs over the weekend is the scum that was on show masquerading as a 'pro' team, they were a disgrace to themselves and their sponsors and to UK paintball.

Every other team there, well, they were a credit !!!

As were the Refs !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't worry, Pete, I will come up with the course structure, organise and run it all for nothing.

Attendees will have to pay a nominal fee for use of the site, though.

 

[Thib]

Training marshalls can't be bad,
but you will always have a "black sheep" which will always try starting troubles or find the weakness.

I think the problem come from the way are treated the players.
Some think they can't do whatever they want because they pay to be there, and some people running the event won't do anything because the money come from these people.
they need to start taking care of long term benefit which are well unsure if your event look like a massive messy cheating game.

When you add the fact marshall are not always "confident about themself", they kind of give the idea to player they can cheat because they won't do anything.

If you start not punishing cheating or unsportive action, some players will start thinking "if people doing it aren't penalised, why should I not do it too?"

The point of rules applied in UK (as someone said) are something to sort as else you start having the "in the other event, they don't do this ..."

As I think forming marshall are a good idea, if the federation do it in the future, I will try to be there, and marshall some events to thank them for it.