Redline Millenium Ramping Issues

[Care_Bears]

Hi Smilley,
This is Jamie from Empire. When making the Shockwave we refered to the following rule which can be seen on the Millennium website here: http://www.millennium-series.com/rul...s=last_changes
Below is what the rules say.

Millennium Series ROF cap in 2009:

In a move to come closer to a world wide standard of rules and procedures and as discussed at the CPL/SPL team owners meeting in Amsterdam, the MS will adopt the same ROF cap (10bps) as used in the PSP. The rules will be updated shortly by following wording of rule ''10.01 Markers''

- The first 3 shots must be semi-auto mode only.
- Markers will be limited to a ROF of 10 balls per second (in 2009 actually 10.5 bps), defined as no two consecutive shots may be timed shorter than 95ms apart (reading on ROF meter of 10.5 bps or less = legal; reading on ROF meter of 10.6 bps or higher = illegal).
- Ramping of shots will be allowed only once 5 bps has been achieved. Then the marker may ramp to 10 bps, but only as long as the 5 bps is continually maintained. Once the trigger is stopped to be activated, only one single additional shot may be discharged.

Clarification: the 5 bps for start/sustain ramping dose not need to be hit physically, it refers to the time delay between trigger activations, which must be at least the equivalent to 5 bps. So a marker may start to ramp up to 10 bps, if (after the first three shots being in semi-auto only) the time delay between 3rd and 4th trigger activation is less than 200ms.


In the clarification it says that time between the 3rd and 4th trigger pull must be less than 200ms, not the 2nd and 3rd. The official that checked the marker may have that rule incorrect or the Millennium website is incorrect.

Does this answer your question?

Thanks,
-Jamie

 

[Care_Bears]

Ainsley :- please inform the refs ...... please.

 

[Gaz #68]

To be fair. As someone above quoted, if its remembering clicks between power cycles I think that is wrong. Should surely have to be three clear clicks after powering on.

 

[frobinson]

Bluey, if you're right, I could cry. When we played your team (also, your fellas are top notch. they actually insisted we replay the point as they didn't want to win on a technicality...), all 5 players got pulled in a point for this. We had Luxes doing this too and were just baffled by how this could be happening.

 

[Gaz #68]

I think part of the key to this is this extract of the Millenium rule "after the first three shots being in semi-auto only". Look at this from a ref's perspective. As a ref, when your handed a marker to test you would want it to demonstrate three shots in semi-auto only prior to ramping. If it starts to ramp after two it would be reasonable for them to class it as a fail. You may well argue back that the rules do not state a timing for the shots in semi-auto and that you may have already fired a shot but the ref wouldn't know this for sure. The only way to be sure would be for the ref to turn off your marker and then turn it on and test from there. At which point it should demonstrate 3 semi-automatic shots before ramping. However, as @$h4uan pointed out in his post, if after turning it back on it ramps after only two pulls then it is my interpretation that it has not demonstrated 3 semi automatic shots and is therefore not compliant - just my thoughts. I for one am finding this debate very interesting. Especially as the rules are not exactly clear as to what should happen if you fail to maintain the bps and ramping stops, how many trigger pulls or semi auto shots are required to start it again, maybe just 2 to hit the bps and away it goes again but to a ref it has ramped after 2 shots again!

 

[frobinson]

to be honest, the reason I posted it here was that I believed it to be a fault with the marker/board as opposed to a bad interpretation of the rules. With the redline, you can set the delay for the board to reset and even with this at 1second, it still had the same issue. I literally can't see any programmable way around it!

 

[Care_Bears]

It`s going to push a lot of players to buy a virtue board that can change everything to do with a gun. and discard the boards within the guns just to comply with the rules,
This has become crazy ???

 

[Gaz #68]

@frobinson it could well turn out to be a board issue especially if it does it immediately after turning on. Likewise it could be compliant based on a given interpretation of the rules. CPPS may be using a different interpretation as the Millenium rules do seem vague enough to allow different interpretations. It is interesting to note that in the above posts Luxe's were mentioned as previously this seemed to be an exclusive Axe/Mini issue but this may turn out not to be the case. My Luxe was tested by a ref and passed but I did note mine was the only one given a bit of a tank slap to check the trigger wasn't bouncing which I thought was a little odd but given what happened with the other Luxes it makes more sense now.

 

[Care_Bears]

every time a ref checks a gun he should tank slap the bottle , as you say, to check one hasn`t got Trigger bounce.

 

[frobinson]

@frobinson it could well turn out to be a board issue especially if it does it immediately after turning on. Likewise it could be compliant based on a given interpretation of the rules. CPPS may be using a different interpretation as the Millenium rules do seem vague enough to allow different interpretations. It is interesting to note that in the above posts Luxe's were mentioned as previously this seemed to be an exclusive Axe/Mini issue but this may turn out not to be the case. My Luxe was tested by a ref and passed but I did note mine was the only one given a bit of a tank slap to check the trigger wasn't bouncing which I thought was a little odd but given what happened with the other Luxes it makes more sense now.

don't get me wrong gaz, i saw a few luxes too, but the head ref literally said "check all the axe/mini markers, they all seem to be having problems" and given that our team mostly shoot axes, this kind of put us in the crap!

and precisely @Care_Bears , that's my worry. It's really pushing me to look for a DM again and similarly the rest of the team all seem to be on the hunt right now again. We just can't have a repeat of this happening, it would be devastating.