ramping and technology

[Rich S]

been away so please tell me what ramping is? and the basic rules regarding it?
and thereore how is will affect equipment such as my evox eblade (origional). will i need to upgrade my board to a zeroB because of it?

thanks

 

[Skeet]

"Ramping" is a bit of a swear word at the moment...
What happened was, many top players, had chips in their guns, that, when a special sequence was tapped out on the trigger etc, would allow the gun, to fire faster, than the actual number of trigger pulls..so...you could walk 10 and get 20...if a maeshall came to close, or on teh way back from a game, all teh player had to do, was tap one button, to revert it to a normal semi....there was also velocity ramping as well.

These were, truthfully, undectable...although people knew they existed, and were being used, there was no proof...so..it was decided to trial a method, whereby..all guns could ramp, after a sustained minimum ROF was attained (5 bps) upto a maximum of 15 bps...this way, anyone going over this, would be obvious, as 15 sounds very different from 20 bps...

A robot exists, that allegedly, can detect ramping...

So, thats about it...give or take a bit...

A Zero B board, or E2 frame, is a good idea, as it will allow several modes of fire, including uncapped semi, capped semi (15) PSP and some other mode...

Ramping isnt allowed in all tournaments, and safety issues have been raised...good fun in the back garden tho!

 

[dr.strangelove]

Skeet's pretty much got it right on. PSP/NXL were the first to roll over and allow ramping, up to 15 bps, and it seems it's becoming the new standard. The NPPL tried to take the moral high ground and develop a robot to combat ramping, bouncing and other illegal firing modes, but it's probably not 100% effective (although the NPPL is in a state of denial about that), and even if it were, the players have no interest in the moral high ground, and are moving to leagues that allow cheating. Ramping will probably become a bygone thing soon enough, because (especially in the UK), you can't get anybody to insure events where it is used becasue of the potential safety issue (in semi, you can be shooting at a player, hit him, stop pulling the trigger, and no more paint comes out. If you're ramping, you could stop pulling the trigger and get 5-10 extra balls). If you'd like to partake of the ramping modes, you should definitely upgrade boards. Or, you could stick in there as one of the holdouts who still use semi (although it has to be capped at 15 bps, same as the ramping markers) and keep what you've got. If you can hit 15 bps without assistance, then you won't really benefit a whole lot from a ramping marker anyway.

 

[Rich S]

well i was brought up on one pull = one shot. there is no skill in a marker that ramps or does bursts, if you do that you migght aswell go auto - heaven forbid.

thanks for the info guys, i think i will stick with my board as i works with one pull = one shot.

thank

 

[Dusty]

its ok taking the moral high ground, and i have to say i agree with you entirely, but at the same time i do realise that i am putting myself at a HUGE disadvantage simply by doing the right thing. go with it mate, if you want to beat the cheats you have to do it using their own technology against them.

 

[Pinchaaaay!]

Originally posted by Rich S
there is no skill in a marker that ramps or does bursts

If anybody minimises the significance / importance regarding the skill of being able to fire a marker fast then they truly have no real understanding of the game of paintball.

The reason you guys spout this opinion is because of the 'nature' of the skill rather than its true place within the hierarchy of paintball skill-sets.

If you look at what a paintballer actually does in the process of playing a game, he dives, sprints, snaps, runs, runs and guns and so on, all these resemble traditional sporting skills because they are at a macro level of play i.e. a whole body process.

Firing fast obviously requires fast fingers and as such it is a process that can be refined (skill) but because it's only a finger, some people misinterpret this as proportionately less significant than a whole body process such as running and gunning.
And because of this misinterpretation we end up with people claiming firing fast is not a skill.
Whenever I look at any problems I try at least, to break it down to its component parts and then put it back together (in my mind) in a way that makes more sense and if we look at 'firing fast' in this way then we can assign its true relevance and believe me we ain't talking about no rocket science here.
Paintball is all about getting paintballs in the air and then avoiding them.
In this basic take on proceedings we can also easily assume that the more paintballs you get in the air, the more chance you have of removing an opponent's armband.

If this is agreed (and you'd have to be a complete idiot to even try and question its legitimacy) then we can also assume pulling that trigger has a direct effect on the number of paintballs in the air, it is (with no cheats) an exact relationship.
If the direction of the game (who wins and loses) is linked directly to the number of eliminations (which it is) then we can now acknowledge that any feature of the game that enables an increased number of paintballs in the air will have a significant and direct effect on which way the game goes.
That said, we don't really need to resurrect Rene Descartes to conclude matters for us, it just takes a little common sense and any 5 year old's propensity to apply logic.

If players vary in their respective abilities then those players who practice and are then consequently able to fire faster, then these players will have acquired a skill that is wholly significant in the sport of paintball and just because it is a finger doing the job as against the legs sprinting, the top half of the body snap-shooting, then it in no way minimizes the significance of that skill.
And thus we can now attribute the skill of firing fast right alongside that of snap shooting, running and gunning, it's just as important, make no mistake about that !

(Courtesy of mr Robinson)

 

[Lucky]

"EH"?
Well i think i understood you and that i agree with you but as i'm no longer 5 years old my brain cells are diminishing quickly !
A quick trigger finger is a skill on it's own.
A player that can combine that finger skill and other good paintball moves will be a force to be reckoned with.
ramping closes that gap between a good player and an unskilled player, after all anyone can move their fingers on the trigger at 4 or 5 bps and get a gun to ramp and thus will be able to dominate with paint rather than skill.
With ramping providing a level playing field anyone can beat anyone on any day, take away ramping and you get good teams and bad teams, and that to me is the challenge, to beat someone better than you and improve your own game.
But as we have detracted from the original thread question, "rich", if you can "genuinly" walk the trigger in excess of 15bps then you would be safer upgrading your board just to cap your top end bps rate, but if like me you cannot reach 15bps then spend your money on paint and beer instead.
I genuinely believe that ramping will soon be dropped, it may take a year or two but i believe the insurance and liability issues will outway any game advantages, i also think that the legal issue will raise it's head again, for a marker to be semi-auto it must have one trigger pull to one shot fired, anything more is going automatic and automatic firearms are "illegal" in the uk, i know we have discussed this with the home office and they say ramping is ok, but you try telling that to the armed respose unit officer, that gets called to an incedent that will happen at a site near you sometime soon, when someone loses an eye to a ramping gun we are all going to burn with them
Enjoy it while it lasts folks

 

[Pinchaaaay!]

Originally posted by diablo66
but you try telling that to the armed respose unit officer, that gets called to an incedent that will happen at a site near you sometime soon, when someone loses an eye to a ramping gun

And then the insurance firm then asks......."where was his goggles?"

That will never be an issue for argument.

Ramping markers are no more dangerous than using mechanical semi on an automag! Ramping just enables higher rates of fire easily obtainable, it doesn't alter the fps limit.



"Pinchaaay!"

 

[Lucky]

"doh" !
Did you really just write that reply ?

And then the insurance firm then asks......."where was his goggles?"

So you never see guns without condoms being dry fired in the pits?..........how long before someone leaves a ball in the breech?
.................how long before the repeated impact of someones goggles being struck at 15bps at close quaters causes the goggles to fail?.........i suggest you read your goggles instruction manual or better still contact JT, dye, etc etc and see if their public liability insurance and build quality etc, is adequate to cover a 1 second burst of a ramping marker from 20feet away straight at someones lenses? one day my friend, one day !

Ramping markers are no more dangerous than using mechanical semi on an automag! Ramping just enables higher rates of fire easily obtainable, it doesn't alter the fps limit.

Ok so leave the fps alone as we know that shouldn't change, but your saying that 15bps isn't more dangerous than an average game speed of 8bps?
So 15 balls in the throat or head will hurt you the same as 8, that is what you are suggesting, isn't it?
Think again dude

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Pinchaaaay!
If anybody minimises the significance / importance regarding the skill of being able to fire a marker fast then they truly have no real understanding of the game of paintball.

The reason you guys spout this opinion is because of the 'nature' of the skill rather than its true place within the hierarchy of paintball skill-sets.

If you look at what a paintballer actually does in the process of playing a game, he dives, sprints, snaps, runs, runs and guns and so on, all these resemble traditional sporting skills because they are at a macro level of play i.e. a whole body process.

Firing fast obviously requires fast fingers and as such it is a process that can be refined (skill) but because it's only a finger, some people misinterpret this as proportionately less significant than a whole body process such as running and gunning.
And because of this misinterpretation we end up with people claiming firing fast is not a skill.
Whenever I look at any problems I try at least, to break it down to its component parts and then put it back together (in my mind) in a way that makes more sense and if we look at 'firing fast' in this way then we can assign its true relevance and believe me we ain't talking about no rocket science here.
Paintball is all about getting paintballs in the air and then avoiding them.
In this basic take on proceedings we can also easily assume that the more paintballs you get in the air, the more chance you have of removing an opponent's armband.

If this is agreed (and you'd have to be a complete idiot to even try and question its legitimacy) then we can also assume pulling that trigger has a direct effect on the number of paintballs in the air, it is (with no cheats) an exact relationship.
If the direction of the game (who wins and loses) is linked directly to the number of eliminations (which it is) then we can now acknowledge that any feature of the game that enables an increased number of paintballs in the air will have a significant and direct effect on which way the game goes.
That said, we don't really need to resurrect Rene Descartes to conclude matters for us, it just takes a little common sense and any 5 year old's propensity to apply logic.

If players vary in their respective abilities then those players who practice and are then consequently able to fire faster, then these players will have acquired a skill that is wholly significant in the sport of paintball and just because it is a finger doing the job as against the legs sprinting, the top half of the body snap-shooting, then it in no way minimizes the significance of that skill.
And thus we can now attribute the skill of firing fast right alongside that of snap shooting, running and gunning, it's just as important, make no mistake about that !

Pinch, I seem to recognise this reply from somewhere........