Question for Nexus

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

For what it's worth Matski I'll throw my two pence in. (You still have pence, don't you?) I have no doubt they can compete. Two things will likely determine how well. The layout and their ability to make adjustments during a match. On a player to player basis I think the best Euro teams have been close for a while now. It will be interesting to see.

Baca, something that has never changed is the question of whether they (or any Euro team) can maintain their best game throughout the tournament because that is what is required to place (no different to any team with pretensions to win).

In the past many Euro team's best game was good enough to beat anyone on their day, what was lacking was consistency of performance. That consistency has been the trade mark of many of the best American teams over the years, we have just got to tap into that somehow.

What I know of Nexus these days is that they are certainly levelling out the peaks and troughs of their performance levels and its starting to show in their results. A young (yet very experienced) athletic team (Leigh aside) that have a settled roster counts massively in their favour too.

If they can maintain their concentration and levels of play then silverware? Why not.

 

[Robbo]

Mark, bottom line is mate, the only way any team (not just Nexus) is gonna get any where near competitive with the top American teams, is by playing against those best teams on a consistent basis, and this is not just for purposes of comaprison but also for purposes of devleopmennt as a team.

If people talk about Nexus, or whoever, being competeitve with the top yanks teams when they don't actually play against them, then it's speculative at best, nationalistic bollocks at worst.

That is the absolute truth of the matter !!

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Mark, bottom line is mate, the only way any team (not just Nexus) is gonna get any where near competitive with the top American teams, is by playing against those best teams on a consistent basis, and this is not just for purposes of comaprison but also for purposes of devleopmennt as a team.

If people talk about Nexus, or whoever, being competeitve with the top yanks teams when they don't actually play against them, then it's speculative at best, nationalistic bollocks at worst.

That is the absolute truth of the matter !!

Pete totally agree, you know I have the same thoughts on that.

I was talking only in terms of semi-pro, or whatever it is now, not the top string. I should have qualified my statement, and it would be naive to argue anything different. (I was kind of following from Matski's question)

We cant play any of those top boys now on any basis, they innovate, rethink the game and just hone their game against the best week in week out, something that the Euros have no chance of replicating, as we all know.

Its going to take a sea change of culture of enormous proportions, taking years and huge investment to close the gap, top teams to top teams across the pond. As none of that is going to happen, then we can only hope for an occasional Joy or RL.

 

[Robbo]

Pete totally agree, you know I have the same thoughts on that.

I was talking only in terms of semi-pro, or whatever it is now, not the top string. I should have qualified my statement, and it would be naive to argue anything different. (I was kind of following from Matski's question)

We cant play any of those top boys now on any basis, they innovate, rethink the game and just hone their game against the best week in week out, something that the Euros have no chance of replicating, as we all know.

Its going to take a sea change of culture of enormous proportions, taking years and huge investment to close the gap, top teams to top teams across the pond. As none of that is going to happen, then we can only hope for an occasional Joy or RL.

Mark, ironically, I think the winds of change could well be mustering in the year ahead whereby the elite 'looking' leagues we have over here (in an attempt to emulate the Yanks) could well come under pressure.

The finances are just not there any more, if the locked leagues collapse over here (like they should do now), I think the same pressures will build over there and if they choose to unlock their leagues in response, we may once again return to a position where Nexus, or any other European team can go over (just like we did) and compete with the best.
And when they do that, we are looking at a 4 to 5 year plan if we wanna get us back up there with those guys.

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Mark, ironically, I think the winds of change could well be mustering in the year ahead whereby the elite 'looking' leagues we have over here (in an attempt to emulate the Yanks) could well come under pressure.

The finances are just not there any more, if the locked leagues collapse over here (like they should do now), I think the same pressures will build over there and if they choose to unlock their leagues in response, we may once again return to a position where Nexus, or any other European team can go over (just like we did) and compete with the best.
And when they do that, we are looking at a 4 to 5 year plan if we wanna get us back up there with those guys.

Pete, I have to say that I am pleased to hear that locked leagues are under threat.

Whilst they are all well and good in an ideal world expecting teams to commit so heavily without the ability to scale down their commitments as finances see fit was unfair. The economic dowturn must surely weaken everyones cash pipelines.

I know why they (MS etc) did it, it guarantees income stream and allows investment (?) but it always struck me as Paintball running before it could walk again. Until the sport side of paintball can run itself without relying on entry fees, therefore guaranteeing stability and enabling an effective (and powerful) Association to be formed that can run the sport then any overreliance on teams to fund the whole shebang is tantamount to a house of cards.

Whilst we had no pretentions to anything other than providing yearly bragging rights and bloody exciting and eventful tournaments then paying your money, taking your choice and having a good time was fine.

Paying your money and being damned for it, as it strikes me today is doomed to failure.

Opening it all up again will certainly generate a deal more satisfaction across the playing board in my opinion and the residual benefit for us Euros will at least be a chink of light to getting back towards the top end of the sport.

 

[Robbo]

Mark, recently I am hearing of teams electing to not play Turkey and just take the fine ....this is madness, this whole idea of locked leagues and their contractual obligations and restraints is insane in this present climate, that boat has long since gone.
I have posted another thread in this forum to discuss this and so apologies for the thread hijack.

 

[Matski]

Mark, bottom line is mate, the only way any team (not just Nexus) is gonna get any where near competitive with the top American teams, is by playing against those best teams on a consistent basis, and this is not just for purposes of comaprison but also for purposes of devleopmennt as a team.

If people talk about Nexus, or whoever, being competeitve with the top yanks teams when they don't actually play against them, then it's speculative at best, nationalistic bollocks at worst.

That is the absolute truth of the matter !!

Couldn't agree more. This was pretty much the basis for my initial question.
I don't see us being truly ready without leagues (especially the MS) facilitating a platform whereby Euro teams can face high calibre US teams. Joy and RL have shown that great things are possible with the right contacts and the approach to training, maybe Nexus Europe are getting there too - but real chances of silver wear (not what your team believes in) are only going to materialise when you get to play the best. The CPL cannot hold a candle to the standard at WC, it's bs - a method of locking in customers and securing ‘profit quality’ at the cost of true competition.

Baca - that's good to hear, but as you suggest, it will come down to that 'team level' ability on your home turf.

 

[Robbo]

Couldn't agree more. This was pretty much the basis for my initial question.
I don't see us being truly ready without leagues (especially the MS) facilitating a platform whereby Euro teams can face high calibre US teams. Joy and RL have shown that great things are possible with the right contacts and the approach to training, maybe Nexus Europe are getting there too - but real chances of silver wear (not what your team believes in) are only going to materialise when you get to play the best. The CPL cannot hold a candle to the standard at WC, it's bs - a method of locking in customers and securing ‘profit quality’ at the cost of true competition.
.

The latter part of that statement Mat is really important, with one addition, locking the leagues down also prevents teams' development.
It's absurd to suggest any Euro team in the CPL is as good as the NXL; it is patently not true and just because people 'talk' about possible parity does not mean it's true, or even possible.
Hell, we don't even know if our top Euro teams can compete with their second tier leagues !!!!
The Millennium has absolutely no interest whatsoever in upholding standards of play, they don't hold events to improve team skill levels, their interest is financial, and rightly so but.........even though they may not be interested in Euro skill levels, they don't have to make things worse..and believe me, locked leagues does make things worse.

The Millennium can only be considered as a stand alone event series because it provides teams and players with a product, that in essence, is an approximation to what the Yanks provide.
But any talk of comparative skill levels is meaningless.
As a product, I think the Millennium guys do an OK job, they could sure do better, we all know that, but they ain't in business to elevate UK team skill levels, they exist to make profit and or develop paintball, which is the same thing really, it just means the profit is made further down the road

 

[Tommy Gun Nexus]

Hi guys,

I don’t want to comment on the effect of locked leagues as I agree with ideas to open the leagues up again, but I do want to comment on the talk of standard in the CPL. I completely agree with most of the points here about having to play the best teams etc. I do however believe that people massively underestimate the standard in the top half of the CPL over this season and last. There are world class teams playing it and many more world class players spread all over throughout the squads. Winning a CPL event is harder than it ever has been. Philly Americans (currently 2nd ranked US team) and Joy's (CPL Champion) finishes last year highlight that, with both teams just winning 1 of the 5 events a piece. We managed to win 2 events last season but only finished 5th overall due to a horrible start to the season.

As Mark said I also think it is about consistency throughout an event, but then consistency to learn and grow throughout a season to ensure that mistakes as a team are minimal. With all fast turn around formats, The more you play Sundays in the same league (same conditions, rules, fields, pits, refs, teams - all help with familiarity), the more chance you will be able to step up to that higher level from then on, especially in that same environment..

There is definitely no question that the NXL teams are the best in the world, they have been the best forever and those teams competing in it will continue to be the best because they are ALWAYS only playing the best teams. Without a doubt it would now take at least a couple of years of any new team playing EXACTLY the same formats battling the same teams to even have a chance of challenging for top4. Challenging for a Semi-Pro podium place could be another matter, depending on how well a team adapts to everything.
I hope even without Race2-7 practice or experience we will be able to prove our intentions and potential to all at PSP World Cup this year.
Time will tell I guess

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

The Millennium has absolutely no interest whatsoever in upholding standards of play, they don't hold events to improve team skill levels, their interest is financial, and rightly so but.........even though they may not be interested in Euro skill levels, they don't have to make things worse..and believe me, locked leagues does make things worse.


.....they ain't in business to elevate UK team skill levels, they exist to make profit and or develop paintball, which is the same thing really, it just means the profit is made further down the road

And I suppose if I were in their position that is what I might (would) do also, its not their responsibility to improve the game for sure. They provide the stage upon which the teams are supposed to shine. If the overall standard of play here is below the US then not even the MS can be held responsible for that.

BUT if they were to appreciate that the Euro teams desired the higher standard of competion that the US teams deliver AND that the teams are the paying customer that needs to be kept happy then they would abandon any pretentions to modelling the MS like the nirvana that the US model is (nirvana only because of the participants and not the mode of tournament delivery) and open the tournaments up.

I agree with Tommy that the competition is definately getting hotter here. I stated above that Nexus (in my now limited opinion) has a good chance of going over to the US and having some measure of success (in the 'semi-pro' division, not NXL) providing that they play to standards that they have attained and clearly aspire to maintaining.

Just my opinion, proviso'd with the fact that I dont get out much these days of course!