An update on questions put to the UKPSF on pistols :
The UKPSF posted the below press release on 19th January and there were several questions that were asked. We have tried our best to answer ...
ukpsf.blogspot.com
The UKPSF posted the below press release on 19th January and there were several questions that were asked. We have tried our best to answer ...
ukpsf.blogspot.com
The UKPSF posted the below press release on 19th January and there were several questions that were asked. We have tried our best to answer the questions posed and hope this give you the answer you needed. If you question is not below we felt it was answered in someone else's question.
We have also taken a couple of questions to our barrister to see if we can some clarification and we will update you when / if we get more info.
Below is the UKPSF's Kinetic Energy Calculator. It needs to be said that the 234FPS limit for 68cal pistol is the MAXIMUM allowed FPS using a Paintball that weights 3.2g. The UKPSF would recommend a lower than 234FPS limit of 220 FPS as a Paintball Park rule, giving a small margin of error.
Copy of Facebook post posted on Friday 19th January 2024:
Over the past weeks, we have spent a considerable amount of time liaising with the NCA (National Crime Agency) as they have been tasked with looking into the increased use of what the NCA are referring to as "Novel Systems" in crimes and incidents in the UK, of which there has been over 70 reported incidents in the last few months alone, which is why the NCA have been tasked by the Home Office to look into the issue.
Novel systems are described by the NCA as “A Portable device, with novel or ambiguous classification characteristics, capable of discharging a shot, bullet or other missile with potential to cause significant traumatic or penetration injury or fatality.” This puts ‘Paintball’ pistols squarely into the scope of this initiative. Thankfully, the NCA are coming to the UKPSF for advice and guidance and want to work with us on this issue rather than just dropping the hammer on paintball which we believe could be a very bad situation for Paintball in the UK.
If you have been following this page, you will know that this isn’t the 1st time we have expressed concerns around the growth in the “paintball Pistol” market and you will also know that we have been seeking expert legal advice on these matters and implementing recommendations that are not always transparent, but ones that we feel are needed to protect our sport.
As explained in a previous post there were issues surrounding the Snowpeak Defender, but this issue is not limited to a single marker or manufacturer, considering the recent developments we now need to be absolutely sure that our house in order. At that time, we were dealing with the issue of a 50cal pistol and the permitted legal limits for these markers when Paintballers are skirmishing against each other, but we are now having to include 68cal in this as well.
We are governed by several different things that all players, paintball park owners and retails need to understand.
1. The ASTM Standard (F1776) for goggles sets the limit allowed for Paintballs of ANY Caliber to be not above 300 FPS and under no circumstances should a Paintball be shot at another player above 300 FPS regardless of calibre.
2. Due to the 6-Foot Pounds limit in the UK (for Pistols) you cannot legally use a Paintball marker in the UK above the following limits:
68 Cal Pistol Maximum Velocity = 234 FPS
50 Cal Pistol Maximum Velocity = 367 FPS
Obviously, the legal limit for 50cal is above 300 FPS so please see rule 1.
3. If you have a 50cal Pistol that is firing above 300 FPS, but below 367 FPS possession is within the law, and you can use that pistol for target shooting at an insured Paintball venue, but it cannot be used for skirmishing against fellow paintballers.
If you’re in possession of a Paintball Pistol that has its velocity higher than the limits quoted above, please be VERY AWARE that this is breaking the law, and you could very easily be sent to prison for possession of an illegal firearm. We highly recommend that you make sure the velocity is below these limits or have the pistol disposed of.
The NCA have only just started the project of looking into these "Novel Systems" but given the sheer number of incidents already on record in such a short period of time if we want Paintball to continue in all of its forms then we need to be very careful and work with the NCA and abide by the laws set for the UK.
We understand that there will be Paintballers and Paintball promoters that will not be happy with this information, however, being a part of recent conversations with the NCA, it’s clear that we need to take decisive action now to prevent the sport that we all love coming under deeper scrutiny.
So as the adage goes “please do not shoot the messenger” especially if it’s with a 68cal pistol shooting over 234 FPS !!
We work for the good of Paintball and will continue to do everything we can to protect and promote this amazing sport but to do this we need you all to do your bit to ensure paintball is professionally run, safety conscious and an inclusive sport.
Regards
Don Logan
Chairman of the UKPSF
Email:
info@ukpsf.com
Website:
www.ukpsf.com
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Questions and Answers:
1... Member shops showing your name on the same page as not only the pistol in question in the recent prosecution but also noting >6joules on the same page.
Without knowing which web site is in question, we can only guess. We suspect that the reason for the UKPSF logo is for the customer to enter their UKPSF membership number. They need to be a trade member of the UKPSF to offer this and should not be offering ‘Overpowered’ Paintball markers. If anyone sees an issue then please screen grab the issue and send, with a URL Link to
info@ukpsf.com explain the issue and we will look into it.
We are a small group of volunteers, and we will not and do not search for issues. We need the help of the Paintball community in the UK to find any issues, then hopefully we can try and fix them. There are also lots of other companies that are NOT UKPSF Trade members that are selling illegal firearms that they probably don't even realise that this is the case. Again, we do not have the time to search for these companies and to advise them. We have written to Umerex and Snowpeak about this but heard nothing back at this time.
2... More concern than the markers themselves is the free and blatant sales of projectiles clearly designed to injure or kill, will you be raising the issue of these being freely available on sites like eBay & amazon and the potential steps that could be taken to regulate and remove these? It will only take one notable incident before we're hit with the nuclear ban, completely destroying Magfed in the UK.
We agree and these things scare us. This wouldn’t just impact Magfed Paintball this would affect ALL Paintball! There are a LOT of different types of 'Less Lethal' or 'Less Than Lethal' rounds on the market. We had some success having some Less Lethal rounds taken down from a 3D printing company but this was some time ago and there are so many different versions now that we wouldn’t even know where to start. In the past we posted something up on how to report incorrectly listed items on eBay. How much success we had doing that I do not know as there are still many different goggles listed on eBay (and I'm sure other places) that say Paintball. Maybe this is an action that just need constant and relentless action to have any impact. Unfortunately, this isn't something that the UKPSF board has the time to do. Please remember that we are all volunteers and have our own lives and jobs to as well as working on UKPSF matters. We will see if we can put something together to show the community how to report these types of things. It’s worth reiterating firing anything other than a frangible round out of a Paintball marker stops it being a Paintball marker. All we can ever do is to make sure our own house is in order.
3... Please consider section 2.53 of the home office guidance here, which precludes markers firing paint pellets from classification as a weapon.
We are going to seek some further advice on this as we are unsure of the implications. Our initial thoughts (but we are not experts) is that this is correct until you breech the limits 6 foot pounds and 12 foot pounds limits.
4... With the aim to kill Magfed. Not speed ball. They have left that alone.
When u say for the good of paintball does that include Magfed...seems here that Magfed Is being targeted only. 70 incidents in the past few months. Knife crime alone is at least 40 a day. Why aren't u as a company that is supposedly supporting paintball doing more.
This isn't an attack on a segment of Paintball that you happen to play. This is the authorities reacting to 70 reported incidents that have happened over the last few months that are using Paintball Pistols and that they have seized from stores, tested and found to be overpowered and illegal based on limits and legislation that has been around since before Magfed was even thought of. So how you can take the stance that’s this was aimed at Magfed is beyond us.
The UKPSF are not Speedball, Airball, Scenario Paintball, Walk-On Paintball, Rental Paintball or Magfed Paintball. The UKPSF is here to help protect Paintball in ALL of its formats. If you feel like this rule is aimed at Magfed then you are incorrect. These pistols can be used in any of these formats and more to the point ARE being used my individuals NOT for Paintball but in criminal activities, thus the issue is now in the spotlight. The UKPSF is here to protect ALL Paintball and if you want to accuse us of anything else then you are very much mistaken and quite frankly it is sad that you are attacking the people that are trying to help.
As for doing more this is the UKPSF doing more by making you all aware of the facts. Some markers (pistols) breach the current power limits and so it needed to be brought to the attention of players that might not have been aware of the fact that they were potentially using weapons that could get them into trouble, but more worrisome for us is that players were being shot at by weapons that were firing in excess of 300 FPS in live game play, with everyone knowing the industry standard maximum is 300FPS. We guess if it's you who is pulling the trigger you're never at risk of getting hurt. However, it shows little or no regard for your fellow players.
5... I thought under UK law paintball was excluded at is uses frangible rounds. Why all of a sudden this.... and why only pistols and not say speed ballers markers being highlighter. Some speed ball markers fall under those measurements of being classed as a pistol.
Can you please let us know which 'Speed Ball' markers fall under the 60cm rule for rifles as we do not know of any. You have to include the tank in the measurement because without the tank there is no projectile being fired out of the marker.
This is NOT all of a sudden. These rules have been in place for many years it’s just that we have not really fully understood the implications especially when it came to the 68cal pistol market. We do now and so we are telling our members. Can you imagine if we knew this information and kept this to ourselves, then someone got seriously hurt!
When the police come knocking on our door telling us that are actively investigating these ‘Novel Systems’ should we just tell them we have been breaking the law for years, please go away and sort out knife crime? Or should we instead try and deal with this in the correct way?
6... UKPSF need to put a set of standards together and not just roll over.
ROLL OVER !!! Why do you think that the authorities would listen to us if we offered them a set of standards? Paintball needs to stay within the rules / laws and the UKPSF are just passing on the information to its members. We are very grateful that the NCA and Police are talking to the UKPSF and asking for and taking our guidance. Maybe if the relationship between us strengthens we might be able to help guide future standards.
7... Another question. The EMF100 is clearly a rifle. But as this image shows, swap the plastics on it, is it still a rifle? What is the definition of a paintball pistol?
Swapping the body on the EMF100 does not make it smaller. The drive train in the EMF100 has not changed, so not significantly smaller in length, in bulk only. What Paintball players need to be aware of is that if you want to modify your markers (Rifles) they still need to stay above 60cm in length. To our knowledge (and please let us know if we are incorrect) all paintball markers that are sold when fitted with the supplied barrel and adding a tank will be more than 60cm in length. If you want to modify your marker with a stubby short barrel and stubby peanut style tank, then we would advise that you measure the overall length of the marker on the hypotenuse to make sure it is 60cm plus. Also, if you want to run a remote on your marker without a fixed stock you would fall under the 60cm ruling and then it would become a pistol.
The EMF100 with a 10" Barrel and 13ci Tank comes in at 69cm in length.
8... Falling in line to cover ourselves and the sport as a whole is super important and I’m behind this post 100% but the issue itself is far more complex than the law is giving it credit for. We need the laws fully reviewing and updating proactively instead of reactively. Paintballers (for the most part) Are not the criminals, so we'll follow the rules, but this won't stop the criminals getting their hands on markers and cranking them way up. The same way that banning swords and knifes has had no impact whatsoever on knife crime.
Agreed on the above but the advice we have been given so far is that we have a defence and it is very unlikely that the law makers will change the laws. In addition to this, the advice was also that just because we want something to change one way doesn't mean it can't get worse. The defence we currently have works and the authorities are happy that it is NOT the Paintball community that are the issue.
9... This issue is a massive can of worms that has huge impact on paintball as a whole and really needs addressing to ensure the health of the hobby/sport. Following outdated and 'sort of fits us' guidelines just isn’t good enough anymore and the UKPSF needs to make a stand and get changes made before it's too late.
We agree it’s a huge issue and if we get this right we sincerely hope we can get a clear classification for what constitutes a paintball marker and where it can be used. But be warned, this could go either way. If it goes wrong that could be devastating for the sport. We are glad the NCA is involving the UKPSF with this discussion because it was happening anyways, so better to be a small voice at the table than an angry voice outside the room
10... If the police pull you traveling to a game with any marker in your car and they want to go down the firearms route, which UKPSF is currently allowing our equipment to be classified as, then you could face jail time simply for possession. Common sense would say you are safe and this is a worst case scenario, but it turns out that sense is not that common lol
The UKPSF does not make any laws. We try and advise our members of ways to stay on the right side of the law. Nothing has changed on this front for a long time. In the case of the pistols in question with this thread it has been overlooked in the past and only when we started to investigate the issue, brought to us by the authorities, did we realise that 68cal Pistols fell foul of the 6-foot pounds law and we have passed on this information to our members. If you are a player with ANY Paintball marker and you are travelling to a game, you should have your marker in a proper bag which can be sealed (like a zip) and make sure that whatever Paintball marker you have is under the legal limits. We would also recommend that you do not have any NON Frangible rounds with you because why would you if you’re going paintballing regardless of the format. Don't give the police reason to pull you over and you should be fine. We do not know the stop, search and detain laws. If the police did look in your bag and saw what looks like a real firearm, how would you expect them to react? I know how I would react. This has never changed, be careful, be respectful and be within the law.
11... I have got one specific question around point 1; can someone reproduce the specific section of the ASTM standard that defines the 300fps cross calibre limit; I'd assume that this should be an energy limit but haven't been able to find the specific section of the standard (mostly because I don't want to buy a copy!)
The UKPSF approached the ASTM about this question because at the time we wanted to see how we could find a way to allow Paintball parks to use 50cal Pistol above 300 FPS due to the fixed output of some pistols. Our understanding was that due to the smaller calibre ball, the energy would be less thus the lens should be OK etc. However, as explained to us by the ASTM, the issue with the smaller calibre Paintballs isn't the energy or even the lens (but you do have to consider that the goggle manufacturers stipulate 300FPS) the issue over 300 FPS is in fact the ingress of the Paintball into the mouth, ear and most importantly eye area. The foam on the goggle could allow Paintball to get into these areas at anything above 300FPS and having a smaller ball makes this even worse. Therefore, that is why the ASTM State 300 FPS REGARDLESS of calibre as the limit.
Before anyone posts anything up about Airsoft and BB's. We cannot comment about anything Airsoft as it is not something that we look into.
12... So my ppq is basically now an illegal paper weight? Unless it can be made to shoot lower than 300 fps? I'd say these laws have been put in place to allow thugs using paintball pistols for crime purposes to be prosecuted more sternly.
The same way full auto is illegal in the UK. The law exists to be used where it applies. I doubt for a minute police will be showing up to paintball sites with a look to making arrests for accepted use of the equipment.
However if the powers that be decided to take things down this route they could.
If you have any Paintball Pistol or Rifle that is above the allowed legal limits then yes, it is illegal and we urge you to get the velocity lowered if that’s possible otherwise you would need to make it permanently unusable or dispose of it . Having an illegal firearm as a paperweight would still be illegal. The laws are not new and the limit of 300 FPS for the use of Paintballs markers in the UK (and the World) has been a 'rule' for many many years. As already stated you can have a 50cal Pistol above 300 FPS but it should not be used to shoot at other players at a venue with the correct insurance. You could legally own it and use it for target shooting at said venue but not in player on player games.
13... So does this cover any paintball pistol that is ‘set’ to shoot about 234 fps, or is capable of doing so?
This can’t be right. That would make every 68 cal pistol a section 5 weapon. Does this mean that every tipx, every T9.1, fsc etc is now illegal?
There are thousands out there
What about the companies importing and selling them?
There are MANY factors that can change the velocity (FPS) of a paintball markers, temperature, paint size, paint weight, bore size to name just a few. When we spoke to the NCA we mentioned this and they understand the need to adjust the markers. The law as we understand it is that if it is under the legal limit, in the case of a 68cal Pistol, shooting an average weighed 68cal Paintball at 234FPS (maximum) then you are OK. The simplest analogy I can think of is if you own a car and your car is capable of going 200 MPH you still have to stay under the speed limit for the area you are in. If you keep to the speed limit you are OK, if you exceed it you can get into trouble for breaking the law.
As for what people own now, we urge them to get them working at the correct FPS or otherwise you would need to make it permanently unusable or dispose of it.
Companies importing and selling them. We have contacted all of the UKPSF Trade members and they should be very aware of the issue. We have also written, on more than one occasion, to Umerex and Snowpeak but have not had any response. We have explained to Umerex and Snowpeak the issue in the UK and asked them to lower the fixed FPS of their markers so they can be used in the UK for skirmishing.
14... Did the UKPSF ever receive confirmation either way in regards to rifs under vcra?
Not 100% sure what the questions about RIF's under VCRA is but if you have UKPSF membership and are using your paintball marker at or under the permitted limits at an insured venue then you have permitted use, but anything else anywhere else could get you in hot water.
We hope this answers your questions? We are working tirelessly on this, and it is taking up a lot of our time. We are happy to work with our members on this or any other subject but what we do not have the time or energy for is our members fighting against us when all we are doing is everything we can to protect our sport. We are happy to listen and act, we will not always get it right but attacking the people that are trying very hard to make a difference is very short sighted.
ukpsf.com
