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NXL All-Star game

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Baca Loco said:
They can quit anytime they want to and you won't hear a peep out of me. In fact if they aren't going to do it right or at least make a reasonable effort to do it right then we'd all be better off if they simply chucked it in and either started over or walked away but I know, if you don't, they ain't walking away and they ain't gonna let go until their cold, dead (or broke) fingers are pried off what's left of the league and whatever your intentions you're simply an apologist for a failing experiment.
Am I selfish for wanting paintball to be a real pro sport? I wanted the same things and advocated the same things both before and after I had any role at all in the pro-ceedings. I've even advocated the pro teams organize and/or consider walking away from the current structures but I know, if you don't, the manufacturers etc. would sooner see most of those teams disbanded and crushed rather than lose their control over them and the fact that all that cost them money isn't my concern. They made that call, not me. And not you or any of the other peons who show up to play tournament paintball on the national level.
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What the NXL has been doing hasn't been working. You seem to want them to keep trying to make the same thing work,and I think they should try something different - and specifically, something more restrained. I think the big mistake 'paintball' has been making was trying to skip all the way to being an established Pro sports league without completing any of the steps in the middle.

We need to back off from trying to be a televised pro league tomorrow and work on having a national circuit with out-of-industry sponsors. 5-10 events per year, depending on how many leagues there are. There need to be some other changes that come with that that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the NXL, and trying to run the NXL separately from everything else right now is a recipe for disaster.


I don't disagree that the current folks would rather kill everything dead than let it go so someone else can do it - but even if they didn't, who is going to dump the money into it if it's not the guys doing it now? We're not just lacking in terms of respect for the greater good, we're lacking in terms of any other suckers willing to drop their money on a pro paintball league.


Sponsors first, separate pro league second, not the other way around.
 
Baca Loco

Baca Loco

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Mar 8, 2002
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PSPLane said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
Just when you think things can't get much worse


1--Nice lead in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
Like--who is gonna pay to send the "All-Stars" to the game?


2--I assume the same people who have paid to send them to every other event.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
And what do the teams get out of it other than another vanity project on a smaller scale?


3--Exposure to a larger than normal crowd of your sponsors wares, the chance show the paintball community your most talented players, maybe an opportunity for you top players to get a little PR in with the fan base, and a break from the financial challenges that MOST teams are in the midst of.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
Does it really add anything to the sponsor image when every team has representatives?


4--In my opinion it does. And being that 6 of the biggest sponsors of teams in the industry think it a good idea, I can't see why you would even question it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
And how does it improve the perception or the image of either the NXL or the players when in fact they are being lowered by combining the All-Star matches with all the other divisional finals?


5--That's tremendously vain. I think most people who are capable of booking a flight, renting a car, or simply following the directions to the field are capable of discerning between the Divisional games and the collection of the top pro players in the world showing their stuff for the audience.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
Which leads me to the next problem; How do the "All-Stars" get chosen?


6--I make that whole thing easy for you. Brian Smith and Holliday. Tell the guys Lane picked and it was out of your hands.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
Right now the mumbling is about the teams perhaps choosing their own representatives. Thanks for another headache I could do without.


7--See above, for now. Honestly, I hope this is not the way we do it in the future (and yes, I want an annual All Star event). Time is of the essence, and this seems like the most prudent means of filling a roster considering such.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
And what happened to the 6 event season?


8--The teams couldn't afford it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
Seems to me everyone important agreed to that at the beginning of the year and now we're in the fallback to an All-Star "event" because some of these clowns have now decided they can't afford to do what they put in place themselves to begin with.


9--That's not true. Lots of people were against it. I did it anyway. Hindsight has cleared my vision somewhat.

It was a bad decision. Sometimes I stick with bad decisions because I would rather suffer the consequences than put teams in a bad situation. This bad decision, on my part, put the teams in a bad situation. I accept my mistake and am trying to rectify it as well as possible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
And in the Big Picture the Mid-Atlantic is gonna turn Sunday into let's watch everybody else on the grandstand field in-between All-Star matches.


10--Why is this an issue?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
You know what happens if all the divisional finals are on the "NXL" field at Mid-Atlantic--the minute it's done all the divisions will be insisting they get the same treatment at World Cup and every event thereafter. Welcome to unintended consequences.


11--That may or may not be an option.

If it is, again, what is the problem. Do you really think it lowers people impression of the Russians? If anything, I believe it will show the drastic differences in the game played by the lower divisions and the pros.

If it is not an option, the divisional teams will be able to handle it. They don't seem to have the same level of arrogance that some of the pro teams have developed. (eh, the last of that isn't completely true - but it worked in the argument so I'll stick with it)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Baca Loco
I'll tell you what the All-Star game does for me, it gives me extra time and resources to focus on playing the NPPL. Thanks NXL. Thanks PSP. Mighty kind of ya.:)


12--Vanity and tackiness in the same post. The shame.
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1--thanks. Sets a tone.:)

2--I think that assumption may be premature. I certainly know it didn't go over well when I filled my boss in.

3--more exposure perhaps on Sunday but only for the teams that ain't been consistently playing on Sundays but Vegas and Chicago had consistently full stands all the time. The grandstand only holds x number of peeps. Either they are there to see divisional play and the All-Star matches are a bonus or they're there to see the All-Star matches and the divisional games are an interruption. If the challenges are so severe why would the teams want to pony up for at best an uncertain and unquatifiable return?

4--as a stand alone, okay, but what's really happening is that the All-Star day is replacing a scheduled, promoted full NXL event that is being cancelled. Perhaps an unavoidable financial reality but there is no case to be made that the All-Star day is better than an NXL event. And if anyone thinks it is perhaps there should simply be an all All-Star schedule in place of the NXL.

5--It's nothing of the sort. And whether or not "they" can discern the distinction is not to the point at all. The action places the NXL within the sphere of 'regular' paintball when all the while the object has been to separate the Pro game and make it distinctive. My point is there are ramifications that result from all these decisions. I'm not judging the merits, simply addressing where they may lead and pointing out they appear to me contrary to the efforts and goals of the last few years.

6--thanks. I'll let the other guys know it was your call. What's a few more irate paintballers?;) :)

7--does that mean 6 events remain on the PSP schedule for everyone except the NXL in 2007 or is the PSP gonna revert to 5 events and give the NXL only 4?

8--then they shouldn't have agreed to attend 6 events, should they?

9--I wouldn't have expected anything less than you falling on your sword but if the Big Kids had really not wanted or refused to accept 6 events there wouldn't have been 6 events. C'mon.

10--it's only an issue for anyone who continues to promote the notion that the Pros are or should be a different kettle of fish from the pay-to-play crowd. If Paintball is gonna give up that idea and return to the integrated tourney scene then it probably doesn't matter at all. It is however, at this particular moment, contrary to recent efforts. S'all I'm saying.

11--why aren't we still playing in pastures? It would be a damn sight easier and cheaper. Whatever you give once you may not have the option of taking away. Now tell me how you run a current NXL Sunday schedule in conjunction with giving the divisional teams final matches on the same field? Gonna change the NXL schedule--again?
The Pro teams have always been arrogant. :p Even back in the day.

12--that vanity canard again. Perhaps you mean something else? (If I was vain I'd have jumped all over that over the top notion of yours from the other day.;))
Take a look at the available weekends bookending the currently scheduled events of the two leagues. I have. Over and over. You wanna talk about the sponsorship value of the All-Star day and I'll counter with earning a Pro spot in the "other" league. Will next year's potential sponsors be more interested in a couple of guys showing up for the All-Star show or with a team that competes at the Pro level in both leagues?
While you understandably are focused on maintaining, building and improving the PSP and serving as many of the teams and players who compete as possible that's not my concern. My concern is what is best for my players and team and while I greatly prefer Xball if the NXL can't get its act together I need to do what I need to do to make sure we offer as much value as possible and that my players get the opportunity to compete at the highest levels possible.
And if the NXL loses ground in the perception of the paintballin' public the teams lose ground too.

Thanks for posting.:)
 
P

PSPLane

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Dec 2, 2005
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Baca Loco said:
1--If the challenges are so severe why would the teams want to pony up for at best an uncertain and unquatifiable return?

2--as a stand alone, okay, but what's really happening is that the All-Star day is replacing a scheduled, promoted full NXL event that is being cancelled.

3--It's nothing of the sort. And whether or not "they" can discern the distinction is not to the point at all. The action places the NXL within the sphere of 'regular' paintball when all the while the object has been to separate the Pro game and make it distinctive. My point is there are ramifications that result from all these decisions. I'm not judging the merits, simply addressing where they may lead and pointing out they appear to me contrary to the efforts and goals of the last few years.


4--does that mean 6 events remain on the PSP schedule for everyone except the NXL in 2007 or is the PSP gonna revert to 5 events and give the NXL only 4?

5--then they shouldn't have agreed to attend 6 events, should they?

6--I wouldn't have expected anything less than you falling on your sword but if the Big Kids had really not wanted or refused to accept 6 events there wouldn't have been 6 events. C'mon.

7--it's only an issue for anyone who continues to promote the notion that the Pros are or should be a different kettle of fish from the pay-to-play crowd. If Paintball is gonna give up that idea and return to the integrated tourney scene then it probably doesn't matter at all. It is however, at this particular moment, contrary to recent efforts. S'all I'm saying.

8--why aren't we still playing in pastures? It would be a damn sight easier and cheaper. Whatever you give once you may not have the option of taking away. Now tell me how you run a current NXL Sunday schedule in conjunction with giving the divisional teams final matches on the same field? Gonna change the NXL schedule--again?

9--that vanity canard again. Perhaps you mean something else? (If I was vain I'd have jumped all over that over the top notion of yours from the other day.;))


10--Will next year's potential sponsors be more interested in a couple of guys showing up for the All-Star show or with a team that competes at the Pro level in both leagues?


11-- My concern is what is best for my players and team and while I greatly prefer Xball if the NXL can't get its act together I need to do what I need to do to make sure we offer as much value as possible and that my players get the opportunity to compete at the highest levels possible.
And if the NXL loses ground in the perception of the paintballin' public the teams lose ground too.
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1- What could the possible costs be to send to guys to an event for 2 days, tops?

2- Is your problem with the cancelling of the NXL event or the All Star game? The fact is that more than couple of the NXL teams said they would not attend an NXL event. A couple other said it was questionable. Simply stated, they couldn't afford it.
The decision to have the All Star game came down to whether I wanted to have no NXL presence. A very weak NXL presence. Or a variation of the NXL, with all teams represented, based on a model that has proven effective in other sports. Of the 3, the All Star game seemed the best choice when faced with the reality of the situation.

If you problem is simply with the fact that there are less than 6 events to be played, I think you are pointing fingers at the wrong people. Or maybe at some of the right people but in the wrong context.

3-- I don't disagree with this, entirely. I do see your point about the 'watering down' effect. And I agree there mat be some altering of the original idea in store. But, I think we differ in whether that is good or bad. Any league, business, or person who wants to be successful has to be willing to make changes when needed. I'm not so hell bent on keeping to the original plan that I want to follow it off the cliff.

4-- Good question. No answer.

5-- I agree. They shouldn't have. But they did. Then they changed. So we adjusted.

6-- They didn't. And there are, for everyone except the NXL.

7-- Again, I think I understand the point. And I don't disagree. Maybe I am more willing to accept the inevitable (if indeed that is the case) for now, because my bigger concern is for the future.

8-- It's called compromise. Players want to be inside the Rose Bowl. Finances point to farmer Browns back forty. I reach as far as we can in the direction the players want, while not forgetting that we have to pay the bills for it at the end. Same with this All Star deal. The teams vary on whether the want to attend or not. The bank account screams that we can't afford it. The fans seem to want the pros there. This decision tries to please as many as possible without killing anyone.

9-- Whatever I needed to mean to keep you from "jumping all over me" is exactly what I meant.

10 -- I would assume they would be interested in both.

11 -- You are an incredibly smart man. Your ability to project the outcome of decisions is astounding, and I've been paying attention for some time now. It sure would be nice to have a guy like you helping me run this thing.
 
Baca Loco

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Mar 8, 2002
4,730
8
63
In the pit
viewfromthedeadbox.blogspot.com
PSPLane said:
1- What could the possible costs be to send to guys to an event for 2 days, tops?

2- Is your problem with the cancelling of the NXL event or the All Star game? The fact is that more than couple of the NXL teams said they would not attend an NXL event. A couple other said it was questionable. Simply stated, they couldn't afford it.
The decision to have the All Star game came down to whether I wanted to have no NXL presence. A very weak NXL presence. Or a variation of the NXL, with all teams represented, based on a model that has proven effective in other sports. Of the 3, the All Star game seemed the best choice when faced with the reality of the situation.

If you problem is simply with the fact that there are less than 6 events to be played, I think you are pointing fingers at the wrong people. Or maybe at some of the right people but in the wrong context.

3-- I don't disagree with this, entirely. I do see your point about the 'watering down' effect. And I agree there mat be some altering of the original idea in store. But, I think we differ in whether that is good or bad. Any league, business, or person who wants to be successful has to be willing to make changes when needed. I'm not so hell bent on keeping to the original plan that I want to follow it off the cliff.

4-- Good question. No answer.

5-- I agree. They shouldn't have. But they did. Then they changed. So we adjusted.

6-- They didn't. And there are, for everyone except the NXL.

7-- Again, I think I understand the point. And I don't disagree. Maybe I am more willing to accept the inevitable (if indeed that is the case) for now, because my bigger concern is for the future.

8-- It's called compromise. Players want to be inside the Rose Bowl. Finances point to farmer Browns back forty. I reach as far as we can in the direction the players want, while not forgetting that we have to pay the bills for it at the end. Same with this All Star deal. The teams vary on whether the want to attend or not. The bank account screams that we can't afford it. The fans seem to want the pros there. This decision tries to please as many as possible without killing anyone.

9-- Whatever I needed to mean to keep you from "jumping all over me" is exactly what I meant.

10 -- I would assume they would be interested in both.

11 -- You are an incredibly smart man. Your ability to project the outcome of decisions is astounding, and I've been paying attention for some time now. It sure would be nice to have a guy like you helping me run this thing.
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1--the boss guesstimated around a grand for us. Might be a little high but probably about right for west coasters.

2--Of course I object primarily to the NO event and as I said the All-Star idea was a cool one. I'm not so much objecting to the All-Star game per se but to what seem to me to be some counter-productive elements to it.

And yes, I'm unhappy with cancelling a scheduled event but not annoyed at you. Some of these things may be your ideas but I understand full well you are the Little Dutch Boy dealing with leaks in the dike not of your making. (Doesn't however mean the result isn't potentially problematic.)

3--my largest problem was in 'attaching' the NXL to the PSP in the first place and compelling you to take actions that might be necessary but aren't necessarily helpful, in the long run.

4--there you go. The All-Star decision now makes this a question that needs answering and what the hell is the point of a vanishing NXL schedule? Talk about shrinking relevance. This is precisely the sort of thing that distresses me about you being forced into making these kinds of calls.

5--I noticed.:)

6--5 and a half. I've been keeping track of how many teams are signed up for San Bernadino.:p :D

7--well, there's inevitability and incompetence. (No, not yours but my frustration is I don't think any of this was inevitable, only the end result of lots of poor choices. Again, not you so much.:) )

8--my point is you may be painting yourself into a corner.

9--I've been uncharacteristically nice cus I like ya.

10--nice try but since this is a situation where I get to choose what's most important and necessary I know which one is more important to us.

11--at this time you obviously don't have the budget for it.:D But then again I'm never short of opinions.
 
D

duffistuta

Guest
PSPLane said:
I'll being 2 cases, a handle of whiskey, and Keely.

Let the negotiations begin.
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He's talking about your six-pack, so patently you can leave Keeley out of it...
 
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