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Chicago

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So is there any truth to the item I heard that Shawn said on the webcast that Joy and Rage were leaving due to WDP not having enough money?

Wouldn't saying an industry company is broke generally be considered a bad idea for a league President?

Especially if the company is not broke, and the teams are leaving because they just don't want to play your league anymore?
 

Robbo

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Chris, you don't have to be broke to make cutbacks mate, far from it in fact.
And as far as calling into question Shawn's integrity on the remark?

Well, with so many people waiting to jump on him, I think from his point of view, if he did have a couple of teams pulling out and had to mention it, wouldn't it be advisable for him to at least introduce other possible reasons for their departure rather than allow suspicion to fall 100% into his quarter i.e. people believing that both teams have left because of the league itself.

Now, I am fully aware of Joy's position in this and the reasons they are doing it and also the reasons in the background that you may well not be aware of but I don't think it's as black and white as you suggest mate.

I had an extensive meeting with Shawn and Bruce when I was out there which I will be commenting upon shortly and I will tell you this much mate; No other league has their direction in terms of thinking outside of the box, in terms of where we need to be and how to get there, no other company has the freed-up finances to take paintball where it needs to go.

Whether people like Shawn or not, believe in what he's trying to do or not, it's all academic to a point because basically, if Bruce and Shawn fail in their endeavour.......well, it really doesn't bear thinking about.
I may be sounding a tad dramatic here but I can't seem to get my head away from sooo many other factors that are going on in the industry at the moment that tend to suggest Bruce/Shawn really do need to succeed.


The PSP can survive for sure but survival alone does little in any bigger picture.
I have now come to the conclusion the NPPL can and probably will survive, and in doing so, the world is at their feet....the PSP can and will survive, and in doing so, their world is their event series.
In the meantime, the industry guys have to chose between the two leagues trying to keep up in this insane duality of high end paintball.

Both leagues now are going to radically change their formats (IMO) with both of them nudging toward the Millennium way of playing ..... now that has irony dripping from every paintball ever fired at these leagues if you really think about it but will these guys ever integrate?
I tell ya summink, Bruce (NPPL) doesn't need them; his plan was and always will be independent of other leagues and individuals, if they wish to join him then 'cool, great, come along, you are welcome'; if not, then he would wish them well in whatever direction they go.

Half of the Yank pro teams are now staring into the abyss that is 2008, I know of far too many of them who are just about to lose the frikkin lot (sponsorship); most know it's coming, some suspect, the stupid ones are oblivious.

Nevertheless, it looks as though 2008 will be starting with 2 leagues Stateside, this does the industry as a whole no good whatsoever but what the f##k, how many other times have we known the right road to take and completely ignored it in favor of .... well, just fill in the spaces as to what particular indulgence you think seems to fit.
 

Dannefaerd

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Both leagues now are going to radically change their formats (IMO) with both of them nudging toward the Millennium way of playing .....
What kind of timeframe would you hazard a guess on this happening. I'm guessing towards 2009, as I can't see the NPPL making that kind of radical format change before the start of the 2008 season.
 

Fisz

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Both leagues now are going to radically change their formats (IMO) with both of them nudging toward the Millennium way of playing ..... now that has irony dripping from every paintball ever fired at these leagues if you really think about it but will these guys ever integrate?
You mean holding events in a farmer's field miles from civilisation, completely disregarding the needs of the players unless being put up against the wall, determining their vendor area prices at such a level that it's actually cheaper for a "domestic" company to set up on the other side of the ocean, raising the entry fees up so much that more and more teams stop coming to the events & last but not least, after sucking so much money from everyone offering them a joke of a grand prize?

I'm being ironic here, in case anybody didn't figure it out. I don't have any clue as to what Pacific Paintball might be planning. From my point of view as a future vendor at their events, I just need to know if it will be worth my time and money to attend their events. If you don't mind Robbo, I'd like to give you a call later in the day and talk a little bit about it.
 

Chicago

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Chris, you don't have to be broke to make cutbacks mate, far from it in fact.
And as far as calling into question Shawn's integrity on the remark?
I wasn't calling into question his integrity. I was questioning the decision to lay blame on a sponsor. Whether it's true or not doesn't really matter - even if it is true, you probably still shouldn't say it. You don't want ANY sponsors thinking that you risk being maligned by the league you're sponsoring if you decide to withdraw your team/sponsorship later.

I tell ya summink, Bruce (NPPL) doesn't need them
It's this attitude that has NPPL going downhill fast and pissing off as many people as they can along the way.

They may not need the other manufacturers.

But you gotta be supported by SOMEBODY. You can NOT go it alone. SOMEBODY has to show up at the events. You can't sell sponsorship of an event that nobody is showing up at.

They bought a magazine. They bought a field. So if they're going to compete with the other manufacturers, and compete with the media, and compete with the fields, who is left?
 

Markie C

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Nevertheless, it looks as though 2008 will be starting with 2 leagues Stateside, this does the industry as a whole no good whatsoever but what the f##k, how many other times have we known the right road to take and completely ignored it in favor of .... well, just fill in the spaces as to what particular indulgence you think seems to fit.
Do you not think that it might be the industry that are to blame for why they wont or are having problems getting it together ???


Its just a thought, i hold my hands up to say that i have no clue what i am on about.
 

P8ntGuy

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Chris, you don't have to be broke to make cutbacks mate, far from it in fact.
And as far as calling into question Shawn's integrity on the remark?

Well, with so many people waiting to jump on him, I think from his point of view, if he did have a couple of teams pulling out and had to mention it, wouldn't it be advisable for him to at least introduce other possible reasons for their departure rather than allow suspicion to fall 100% into his quarter i.e. people believing that both teams have left because of the league itself.

"Not trying to start an arguement here but, I think it says a lot that so many people are waiting to jump on him. I also think it's unprofessional for a president that is losing teams and is in short supply of his own industries sponsor backing (for what ever the reason) to publically state that one of his current leagues sponsor is having money problems and that is the reason why certain teams are not playing in his league next season, when that is simply not the case. It seems typical of Shawn to pass the blame. We all know why Joy isn't returning."

Now, I am fully aware of Joy's position in this and the reasons they are doing it and also the reasons in the background that you may well not be aware of but I don't think it's as black and white as you suggest mate.

I had an extensive meeting with Shawn and Bruce when I was out there which I will be commenting upon shortly and I will tell you this much mate; No other league has their direction in terms of thinking outside of the box, in terms of where we need to be and how to get there, no other company has the freed-up finances to take paintball where it needs to go.

"It's great that they are thinking outside the box, and that they have the money to do so, but I think it's just as important to stick your head in the box every once in awhile and make sure that things are on track. Shawn is too busy with becoming this media giant for paintball that he has either forgotten about or completely ignored the single most important factor in that whole plan, the teams, the players, the problems, the actual product that he is trying to sell, the league."


Whether people like Shawn or not, believe in what he's trying to do or not, it's all academic to a point because basically, if Bruce and Shawn fail in their endeavour.......well, it really doesn't bear thinking about.
I may be sounding a tad dramatic here but I can't seem to get my head away from sooo many other factors that are going on in the industry at the moment that tend to suggest Bruce/Shawn really do need to succeed.

"First, I think that's one of the main problems. No one seems to know exactly what it is he's trying to do, or what he is there for in the first place. Is he there to build a media based business by shopping new sponsors and taking the sport mainstream, or is he there to fix the leagues many problems and make the NPPL the greatest professional paintball event that it can be. If he's there for the first then he should hire someone that wants to fix the NPPL's problems. I agree with you completely about one thing. They do need to succeed, and I for one want to see that happen, but Shawn needs to stop ignoring the fact that the league has a responsibilty to it's players. The NPPL is first and foremost a business in the business of HOSTING fair, competitive, safe and professional paintball events, not just promoting and selling them. That should be the business of Pacific Paintball, not the NPPL."


The PSP can survive for sure but survival alone does little in any bigger picture.
I have now come to the conclusion the NPPL can and probably will survive, and in doing so, the world is at their feet....the PSP can and will survive, and in doing so, their world is their event series.
In the meantime, the industry guys have to chose between the two leagues trying to keep up in this insane duality of high end paintball.

Both leagues now are going to radically change their formats (IMO) with both of them nudging toward the Millennium way of playing ..... now that has irony dripping from every paintball ever fired at these leagues if you really think about it but will these guys ever integrate?
I tell ya summink, Bruce (NPPL) doesn't need them; his plan was and always will be independent of other leagues and individuals, if they wish to join him then 'cool, great, come along, you are welcome'; if not, then he would wish them well in whatever direction they go.

"They don't need them, but I would hope they would want to work together if at all possible. That after all is how any company that states they want to be the "worldwide governing body of paintball", should think."


Half of the Yank pro teams are now staring into the abyss that is 2008, I know of far too many of them who are just about to lose the frikkin lot (sponsorship); most know it's coming, some suspect, the stupid ones are oblivious.

Nevertheless, it looks as though 2008 will be starting with 2 leagues Stateside, this does the industry as a whole no good whatsoever but what the f##k, how many other times have we known the right road to take and completely ignored it in favor of .... well, just fill in the spaces as to what particular indulgence you think seems to fit.
...